Axman
Member
What's the difference in accuracy. I'm contemplating one or the other just need input! Thanks
Crossbow vs. Compound
- Thread starter Axman
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I haven't used compound bows much, but I have a compound crossbow. When comparing the two, you should note that the crossbow will have a shorter range than the bow in most cases.
But here is what I have noticed at my club: when comparing the bow to the crossbow, and when sticking within the range of the crossbow, the crossbow is more accurate. I don't regard the crossbow as archery, I regard it more as shooting. It requires much less skill to use a crossbow than a bow. By the way here is my crossbow:
But here is what I have noticed at my club: when comparing the bow to the crossbow, and when sticking within the range of the crossbow, the crossbow is more accurate. I don't regard the crossbow as archery, I regard it more as shooting. It requires much less skill to use a crossbow than a bow. By the way here is my crossbow:
Thanks, Sharpdogs. It is a Crisbow MKIV with a Cheetah frame and a Quadro 2000 prod. When I first got it, it was a complete Crisbow Cheetah because it had a single recurve prod on it. The Cheetah frame and Quadro frame are identical, it is just the prods that are different (recurve vs compound). I got the Quadro prod later, but like a fool I used the recurve as a trade-in for the Quadro. I should have kept that because then I could have had the choice of two configurations.
As far as I am aware those were designed and manufactured in South Africa and they are no longer being produced. There was another version with a wood stock and some of those have been sold recently in Belgium (a guy at the club here imported one). But in my opinion they are not as good because they have no front sight, so you have to use a scope. They also don't have the adjustable grips and butt stock, and the cable-guide is off-center.
That Cheetah/Quadro is not a bad bow, quite powerful, but you are quite limited in range. I would say if you wanted to do really accurate shooting with that, you would be limited to around 40m. The trajectory has a sudden fall-off after that. It is very durable: I have had the same Cheetah frame for 17 years ! The only thing I had to replace was the original scope and one of the fasteners for the rear grip.
As far as I am aware those were designed and manufactured in South Africa and they are no longer being produced. There was another version with a wood stock and some of those have been sold recently in Belgium (a guy at the club here imported one). But in my opinion they are not as good because they have no front sight, so you have to use a scope. They also don't have the adjustable grips and butt stock, and the cable-guide is off-center.
That Cheetah/Quadro is not a bad bow, quite powerful, but you are quite limited in range. I would say if you wanted to do really accurate shooting with that, you would be limited to around 40m. The trajectory has a sudden fall-off after that. It is very durable: I have had the same Cheetah frame for 17 years ! The only thing I had to replace was the original scope and one of the fasteners for the rear grip.
p35
Member
What do you want to do with it? In many states, including this one, crossbows are illegal for hunting. For fun, I'd rather shoot a longbow or compound. Not seeing much use for a crossbow, all in all, but that's just my personal taste.
Axman
Member
Notice my location? I'm in Arizona, machine guns are legal here also. I've just never had the chance to use a crossbow and was curious how it compared to a compund bow, which I have used before. The Arizona Game & Fish department considers crossbows as archery so there's no legality matter here. I am probably going to use one or the other for nothing larger than a whitetail or maybe a Javelina. Since most of the game I'd be going for would not be visible except at close range because of the desert foliage, I was leaning more toward the crossbow. A compund type crossbow just may be the ticket.
@ Axman
Well, if you are going to shoot deer and you are going to be close, I would say the crossbow would fit that purpose. You can use a compound crossbow with suitable broadheads. These are Vortex 'expanding' broadheads:
Well, if you are going to shoot deer and you are going to be close, I would say the crossbow would fit that purpose. You can use a compound crossbow with suitable broadheads. These are Vortex 'expanding' broadheads:
Harley Quinn
Member
Those heads look expensive and easily ruined.
I believe those are truly the sign of the times especially with less weight and better performance.
But the old Bear head with the razor inserts, the way I would go.
Some of the new stuff is great, but it is still the same thing just like a bullet.
The particular weapon needs to be designed around the game you are after.
I guess the heads are expendable now??? Maybe those are inserts into the stronger mass of the head??? Pretty awesome looking.
Bleeding out the boar or the deer is what happens, looks like they will do the job
Nice Crossbow.
HQ
I believe those are truly the sign of the times especially with less weight and better performance.
But the old Bear head with the razor inserts, the way I would go.
Some of the new stuff is great, but it is still the same thing just like a bullet.
The particular weapon needs to be designed around the game you are after.
I guess the heads are expendable now??? Maybe those are inserts into the stronger mass of the head??? Pretty awesome looking.
Bleeding out the boar or the deer is what happens, looks like they will do the job
Nice Crossbow.
HQ
@ Harley Quinn
I can't remember how much I paid for those, because it was a few years back and I got them in a pack of three, but they weren't more expensive than the other broadheads I have (although admittedly the others are high quality). If I was hunting, my rationale would be that the broadhead and indeed the bolt would be expendable. I wouldn't mind, if I was going to get the deer. Here are some others that I reckon will also do the job:
I can't remember how much I paid for those, because it was a few years back and I got them in a pack of three, but they weren't more expensive than the other broadheads I have (although admittedly the others are high quality). If I was hunting, my rationale would be that the broadhead and indeed the bolt would be expendable. I wouldn't mind, if I was going to get the deer. Here are some others that I reckon will also do the job:
Harley Quinn
Member
Nice, something about them awakens fear.
Hi,
Boy those are sure wicked looking. Might be time to go back to the bow. Silent and deadly.
HQ
Hi,
Boy those are sure wicked looking. Might be time to go back to the bow. Silent and deadly.
HQ
swampdog
Member
I wouldn't call myself an archer, but I've killed a few deer with a compound bow. We're not allowed to use crossbows here, unless you get a special disabled sportsman license. If I was allowed to use one, I'd have to consider the relative merits of both. Which is easier to carry through the "desert foliage" you mention? If you plan to still hunt or spot and stalk, which weighs less? Which offers a quicker opportunity for a second shot? Which do you shoot better? I would try to shoot both before making a purchase.
The crossbows I'm looking at in Cabela's have a draw weight of 150-175lbs. I don't understand how they can have less range than a bow with 1/2 the draw weight. Are the arrows that much heavier? The figures listed suggest that the crossbow bolt also travels about 15% faster. I thought crossbows had more range and shot flatter?
I don't know that, for the way I hunt, I wouldn't still choose a compund bow, if given a choice. While I don't have one of the extremely light, 32" Matthews bows, my browning is only 38" long and it weighs around 3lbs. It goes through heavy cover pretty well. I finger shoot, so a second shot is doable, if not likely. You have to winch a crossbow, don't you?
Nice crossbow, btw. I wish we could use them. I'd certainly give it a shot.
The crossbows I'm looking at in Cabela's have a draw weight of 150-175lbs. I don't understand how they can have less range than a bow with 1/2 the draw weight. Are the arrows that much heavier? The figures listed suggest that the crossbow bolt also travels about 15% faster. I thought crossbows had more range and shot flatter?
I don't know that, for the way I hunt, I wouldn't still choose a compund bow, if given a choice. While I don't have one of the extremely light, 32" Matthews bows, my browning is only 38" long and it weighs around 3lbs. It goes through heavy cover pretty well. I finger shoot, so a second shot is doable, if not likely. You have to winch a crossbow, don't you?
Nice crossbow, btw. I wish we could use them. I'd certainly give it a shot.
RedAlert
Member
Range?
On the issue of range between a cross-bow and a long-bow with the same pull weight wouldn't the length of stroke make a difference. Like a gun's barrell. Longer barrell gives more time for gasses to push the slug. Wouldn't the bows experience a similar effect?
I don't have any experience with either, but looking at differences between them this is what comes to mind for me.
RDF
On the issue of range between a cross-bow and a long-bow with the same pull weight wouldn't the length of stroke make a difference. Like a gun's barrell. Longer barrell gives more time for gasses to push the slug. Wouldn't the bows experience a similar effect?
I don't have any experience with either, but looking at differences between them this is what comes to mind for me.
RDF
lawson
Member
to hunt with a crossbow in AZ, you need to have a doctor's note stating you are lacking 90% function in one of your arms.
you can't hunt with machineguns either
you can't hunt with machineguns either
Axman
Member
Well Lawson, someone misinformed me at the local GFD. Guess that answers my question. I still might pick up a crossbow just to target shoot! I do know that full autos can't be used for hunting, that's a gimme!
lawson
Member
we looked into it for an elderly hunting buddy who enjoys bowhunting but has been having arthritis problems. he has a disabled liscence, but was not considered disabled enough to get crossbow permission.
this was last spring, before our javelina hunt. i say pick up the current regs and read up, they change them sometimes without notice. i may be incorrect as of the most recent published regs.
this was last spring, before our javelina hunt. i say pick up the current regs and read up, they change them sometimes without notice. i may be incorrect as of the most recent published regs.
The power stroke is shorter and the bolts, (arrows are called bolts with crossbows) are lighter in weight. That is why they are not as effective at longer ranges, they lack the mass and momentum to penetrate adequately once they start to slow down. You can adjust your sites and remain very accurate at longer distances, you just don't have the power to assure humane kills.
That is pretty much how the experienced archers at the club explained it to me. It is a question of stroke, or if you want a simple variable, the length of the crossbow track from trigger to rest. It is very short compared to the distance that a bowstring remains in contact with an arrow.
But up close, within that 40m range, the crossbow hits VERY hard. In our compressed foam target butts, depending on the bolt type (but using a standard field tip) the bolt can bury itself in the butt so that you only see the last inch of fletchings, or in some cases, you can't see anything because it is almost through. It has prompted me to change all failed fletchings to the lower profile and hardier shark fin fletchings for short bolts, or bi-delta fletchings for longer bolts. In the following picture the top bolt is an early carbon-fibre bolt with shark fin fletchings and the one underneath is a standard aluminium bolt with typical single delta fletchings. The bi-delta fletchings are a cross between the shark fin and the delta. They have two deltas instead of one. I find that the shark fin fletchings survive going through target butts a lot better than the ordinary delta fletchings.
The other thing you have to consider is the draw weight on that bow, combined with the reach over. At my club, I would say it is a 50/50 split whether the men can load it (it has no load assist mechanism such a motor or a lever). Either they can't reach the string or they physically can't draw it. It is no mean feat to lift 140 pounds with a straight lift using your arms only. For the ladies: you have very little chance. I have only seen one woman load that crossbow. Many have tried. It is not a simple case of brute strength either. If it was just a matter of lifting a 140 lb weight off the ground I am sure most people here could do it, but to do it in a controlled manner that is safe for your back and for the crossbow is not easy.
It might be better for certain people to get a crossbow with an integrated electric motor or a winding winch for loading. I have several other tips for potential crossbow owners that I will post here if requested.
But up close, within that 40m range, the crossbow hits VERY hard. In our compressed foam target butts, depending on the bolt type (but using a standard field tip) the bolt can bury itself in the butt so that you only see the last inch of fletchings, or in some cases, you can't see anything because it is almost through. It has prompted me to change all failed fletchings to the lower profile and hardier shark fin fletchings for short bolts, or bi-delta fletchings for longer bolts. In the following picture the top bolt is an early carbon-fibre bolt with shark fin fletchings and the one underneath is a standard aluminium bolt with typical single delta fletchings. The bi-delta fletchings are a cross between the shark fin and the delta. They have two deltas instead of one. I find that the shark fin fletchings survive going through target butts a lot better than the ordinary delta fletchings.
The other thing you have to consider is the draw weight on that bow, combined with the reach over. At my club, I would say it is a 50/50 split whether the men can load it (it has no load assist mechanism such a motor or a lever). Either they can't reach the string or they physically can't draw it. It is no mean feat to lift 140 pounds with a straight lift using your arms only. For the ladies: you have very little chance. I have only seen one woman load that crossbow. Many have tried. It is not a simple case of brute strength either. If it was just a matter of lifting a 140 lb weight off the ground I am sure most people here could do it, but to do it in a controlled manner that is safe for your back and for the crossbow is not easy.
It might be better for certain people to get a crossbow with an integrated electric motor or a winding winch for loading. I have several other tips for potential crossbow owners that I will post here if requested.
Last edited:
Harley Quinn
Member
Electric winch, wow
I think for sanities sake and second shot response I'll just stick to the compound at about 65lbs, relaxing to a comfortable 45lbs and the second shot is fairly fast.
Thanks for all the information though, I am able to make these opinions based on the quality information you are delivering Odd Job.
HQ
I think for sanities sake and second shot response I'll just stick to the compound at about 65lbs, relaxing to a comfortable 45lbs and the second shot is fairly fast.
Thanks for all the information though, I am able to make these opinions based on the quality information you are delivering Odd Job.
HQ
coelacanth
Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 455
the problem with crossbows for hunting. . . . .
seems to be lugging around something that weighs that much. Most of us who hunt Arizona either frequent the low deserts which are hot and dry most of the year and no fun to drag a clunky crossbow around or the high country above 6000' with the oxygen deficit thing and no fun to drag a clunky crossbow around. Some of the very latest compounds are fairly light as those things go but still nowhere near the joy to carry that a short recurve or a longbow is. Perhaps my bias toward traditional equipment is showing but there was a good reason that the crossbow was developed as a point defense weapon. They're a bloody PITA to carry around!
seems to be lugging around something that weighs that much. Most of us who hunt Arizona either frequent the low deserts which are hot and dry most of the year and no fun to drag a clunky crossbow around or the high country above 6000' with the oxygen deficit thing and no fun to drag a clunky crossbow around. Some of the very latest compounds are fairly light as those things go but still nowhere near the joy to carry that a short recurve or a longbow is. Perhaps my bias toward traditional equipment is showing but there was a good reason that the crossbow was developed as a point defense weapon. They're a bloody PITA to carry around!
@ Coelacanth
You are right. The crossbow is heavy and awkward to carry.
@ gottatry
If you post pictures of the crossbow I'll tell you what components you need to make it compound. There are many questions I could ask, but a picture will be quicker.
You are right. The crossbow is heavy and awkward to carry.
@ gottatry
If you post pictures of the crossbow I'll tell you what components you need to make it compound. There are many questions I could ask, but a picture will be quicker.
The picture works just fine.
Some comments about your crossbow:
1) Either it has been painted (green on black) or it is the first camo Cheetah I have ever seen. I suspect it is painted because there is green on the string.
2) It looks like the last person who used it was left handed because they have fastened the butt-stock release bolt with the handle on the right.
Here is mine (an original Cheetah frame with Quadro 2000 prod (the 'bow'):
Okay, here is what you will have to do to make that crossbow compound:
1) Get a compound prod (obviously). Here is a picture of it:
There was a company in Belgium selling these prods (and indeed selling the wood frame version of the Quadro2000). These are the details of the company (note that they have not responded to my emails but I have not written to them or phoned them recently):
If they still have those, they will probably send you the prod and nothing else. But as you can see from the picture of my crossbow, you need a cable guide rod and a cable hook in order for your frame to support a compound prod. If you look on your frame, up front below where your front sight is, you'll see a hole there. That's where the rod is housed. It is a very strong metal that bends slightly.
Rod dimensions: length: 6" (152mm)
diameter: 0.316" (8mm)
The cable hook can be made from a bit of plastic with a hole slightly bigger than the guide rod and a notch cut in the top. When you have the prod and the cable guide rod, I will post measurements and photos of the cable hook. It doesn't have to be exact, it is a very simple item that you can make by yourself.
After that you just need a better scope and rings. It looks like you have the original scope rings (has screws that tighten to the rail from both sides). Those ones suck, a little bit. You need to get Lynx scope rings (if I recall correctly you want the BRNO 527 rings as the rail on the crossbow is a 16mm dovetail, tapering down to 14mm).
Then find a scope that the crossbow won't destroy. I am on my 5th scope now. The crossbow just thrashes them and the reticles either snap or come loose within the scope. You need to get a high quality air rifle scope (spring rated). The original scope that came with the Quadro kit was a 4x32 multiple reticle Crisscope. It lasted quite long (at least ten years) but after it failed, none of the replacements lasted very long. I got the crossbow when I was 17 and I am now 35. The only other thing I had to replace was one of the grip screws (I over-tightened one and it snapped. I got a replacement from the company named above).
That's it, this is all you need:
1) Prod
2) Cable guide rod
3) Cable hook
4) Better rings
You can make all of them up (non original parts) except for the prod. That you have to buy because it has the proper steel limbs, cams and additional cables. If you change the string serving often and wax it and look after it, you won't need another string on the compound prod. On the recurve (which is what you have there) I had to change strings about three times in the 2 or 3 years I had the crossbow before I upgraded it.
One of the guys at the rifle club has the wood frame version of the Quadro2000 and I will try to get pictures of that for you. It uses an off-centred cable guide and a brass track, but the compound prod is the same, with the same draw weight. You can at least look forward to a 10lb lower draw weight when you upgrade (your recurve should be 150lbs draw weight).
Any more questions, feel free to ask!
Some comments about your crossbow:
1) Either it has been painted (green on black) or it is the first camo Cheetah I have ever seen. I suspect it is painted because there is green on the string.
2) It looks like the last person who used it was left handed because they have fastened the butt-stock release bolt with the handle on the right.
Here is mine (an original Cheetah frame with Quadro 2000 prod (the 'bow'):
Okay, here is what you will have to do to make that crossbow compound:
1) Get a compound prod (obviously). Here is a picture of it:
There was a company in Belgium selling these prods (and indeed selling the wood frame version of the Quadro2000). These are the details of the company (note that they have not responded to my emails but I have not written to them or phoned them recently):
If they still have those, they will probably send you the prod and nothing else. But as you can see from the picture of my crossbow, you need a cable guide rod and a cable hook in order for your frame to support a compound prod. If you look on your frame, up front below where your front sight is, you'll see a hole there. That's where the rod is housed. It is a very strong metal that bends slightly.
Rod dimensions: length: 6" (152mm)
diameter: 0.316" (8mm)
The cable hook can be made from a bit of plastic with a hole slightly bigger than the guide rod and a notch cut in the top. When you have the prod and the cable guide rod, I will post measurements and photos of the cable hook. It doesn't have to be exact, it is a very simple item that you can make by yourself.
After that you just need a better scope and rings. It looks like you have the original scope rings (has screws that tighten to the rail from both sides). Those ones suck, a little bit. You need to get Lynx scope rings (if I recall correctly you want the BRNO 527 rings as the rail on the crossbow is a 16mm dovetail, tapering down to 14mm).
Then find a scope that the crossbow won't destroy. I am on my 5th scope now. The crossbow just thrashes them and the reticles either snap or come loose within the scope. You need to get a high quality air rifle scope (spring rated). The original scope that came with the Quadro kit was a 4x32 multiple reticle Crisscope. It lasted quite long (at least ten years) but after it failed, none of the replacements lasted very long. I got the crossbow when I was 17 and I am now 35. The only other thing I had to replace was one of the grip screws (I over-tightened one and it snapped. I got a replacement from the company named above).
That's it, this is all you need:
1) Prod
2) Cable guide rod
3) Cable hook
4) Better rings
You can make all of them up (non original parts) except for the prod. That you have to buy because it has the proper steel limbs, cams and additional cables. If you change the string serving often and wax it and look after it, you won't need another string on the compound prod. On the recurve (which is what you have there) I had to change strings about three times in the 2 or 3 years I had the crossbow before I upgraded it.
One of the guys at the rifle club has the wood frame version of the Quadro2000 and I will try to get pictures of that for you. It uses an off-centred cable guide and a brass track, but the compound prod is the same, with the same draw weight. You can at least look forward to a 10lb lower draw weight when you upgrade (your recurve should be 150lbs draw weight).
Any more questions, feel free to ask!
I forgot to ask, what is the history of the crossbow?
Who did you buy it from, where are you located?
These were sold in South Africa and as far as I can tell they were made in South Africa and haven't been produced for many years now. There was an Italian gent posting on TFL, asking where to get a replacement stirrup. I gave him the same company details but he didn't post back whether he was successful or not.
Who did you buy it from, where are you located?
These were sold in South Africa and as far as I can tell they were made in South Africa and haven't been produced for many years now. There was an Italian gent posting on TFL, asking where to get a replacement stirrup. I gave him the same company details but he didn't post back whether he was successful or not.
it belonged 2 a fellow workers uncle that passed away 5 years ago or so, as for the paint could be, what do think it is worth, just curious, do u think i could just get a new string for now, and use it this season. this stuff is all new to me, and i'm from simcoe ont., you say london, is that london ont.
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