Cure for M9 mag jams in Iraq?

[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings. Does anyone on the board have any suggestions to avoid the balky magazine issues which plague M9 wielders in Iraq?

I'm sure many would say "clean them", but even daily or twice daily cleaning was insufficient to keep the mags functioning. Practically everyone I knew who carried an M9 complained that, despite daily or even more frequent cleaning, the mags still failed to feed. In basically every case, the compressed spring would not press against the follower, causing loose rounds to rattle around in the mag, fall out into magpouches, etc.

Mags would sometime show this tendency despite having been cleaned and wiped dry assiduously minutes before. I'm sure maintenance is part of the issue, but the fact that it was so widespread, and has been mentioned as a complaint in the "Marine Times", leads one to wonder if the quality of the mags or components play a role.

I had my parents mail me two Wolff mag springs, and installed those. That slightly improved the issue, though the 15 round mags with 15 round springs would only accept 11 rounds or so. Though improved, it was still not perfect.

What would you suggest for persons returning to Iraq? Buy civvie 10-round mags of reputable make? Replace the follower and spring on your issue mag bodies? Turn it back into the armory and buy a Browning HP on the Tikrit black market?

All reccommendations appreciated. -MV

 

[WonderNine]

I don't know what to say, if they spring is weak replace it. And ask for some better mags.

You read all kinds of weird stories about those mags, some say they are made mostly by an aftermarket maker and they all suck, but then when you see USGI mags for sale on the market, everyone jumps at them and loves them because they function so perfect. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Preacherman]

I can only offer you a personal solution, not one that can be generally issued by the quartermaster. I had problems with issue handgun magazines in South Africa, in a similar climate. My solution was to buy a few of my own magazines, ensuring that the followers and springs were according to manufacturer's specifications. Then, I coated the INSIDE of the magazines with a Teflon-like substance, which meant that it didn't need lubrication, dust didn't stick to it, and the spring and follower slid easily over the surface. I also replaced the springs on a regular basis.

That combination worked for me. YMMV...

PS: The Teflon coating did wear off after a few months, but I simply rotated new magazines into service and posted the old ones home for re-finishing. A bit pricey and inconvenient, but hey - what's your life worth?

 

[10-Ring]

The only thing is to somehow minimize exposure to the sand....maybe a change in lube, or a change in the follower or somehow attach spring to follower to insure contact.
Good luck figuring it out!

 

[dsk]

Thus the problem with double-stack mags. They seem remarkably intolerant of foreign matter (especially sand) inside them. The Wolff mag springs were an excellent idea, but I also suggest using some thin tape to cover the round-count holes. The fact is your safest bet is in keeping the sand out of the mags in the first place. If there's any way you can cover the top portion of the mag down past the mag catch hole as well (without compromising the ability to pull the cover off during a reload) even better yet.

If nothing else, maybe you can wrap each mag once with a thin cloth or wax paper. It may slow down the reload, but at least you'll unwrap a fresh magazine free of crud when you do.

 

[timmerk]

I'm new - so please don't flame me - but what gun is the M9?

Thanks!

 

[sgt127]

A loose 1911A1.

 

[Nightcrawler]

but what gun is the M9?

The Beretta 92F that is the current issue sidearm of the US military. M9 is the military designation for it.

 

[timmerk]

Thanks! Right after I posted that, I was reading a gun mag, and it said it was a Beratta.

 

[VG]

Mathew, this has been a complaint in AAR's since Afghanistan.

The "Command Solution" is to load 10 rounds. Buying pre-ban or LE/Military high caps from Beretta or another to quality mag such as MecGar seems to work better. Midways USA has factory 15 round mags for $21.50.

FWIW, back in the day I had feed problems with many USGI .45 mags and used to carry a few commercial mags instead, and hand picked the others.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Midways USA has factory 15 round mags for $21.50.

That's a good price, given that the going rate is like $50.00...

 

[UnSafe]

My Army experience-
-Rank & File (FORSCOM) units don't replace mag springs or followers unless broken. The issue of possibly sacked out springs becomes an unknown factor when AAR'ing jams or FTF/FTE.
-The same goes for M9 recoil springs. Some pistols have seen duty as "Range whores" -being used for qualification by multiple Soldiers/ Staff Officers (The worst at maintenance), cleaned and put up. Easy to put 5K+ rounds through a pistol/ recoil spring in a 2-3 day qualification period. It'll run OK when clean and oiled, but add dirt and..
-Oiling mag bodies screws them up. Spray with brake cleaner or rinse in acetone, then leave dry.
-Dry, sandy environments require detailed individual and crew served weapons maintenance several times daily. Sometimes hourly or at each stop or pause in travel. It's a real PITA to wipe down the same ammo, rifle and pistol for the 6th or 10th time of the day when you're tired/busy/ over tasked/ in a dust storm. Compliance with weapons cleaning plans wanes when the threat seems distant.
-Any oil; CLP, Militec, etc. can attract dirt. M9's and M16A2/M4's run fine dry or with a bit of dry graphite.
-It's easy to type an opinion about someone else's problems when I'm safe at home surfing the internet.

Be safe and teach the young guys about the lessons you've learned for the next big one.. Wait, it ain't over yet

 

[Soap]

Have you tried replacing the recoil spring?

 

[sgt127]

Dri Slide

There used to be a lube called Dri-Slide. It was molybdimum Disulfide (I really doubt I spelled that right) in a quick evaporating carrier. Left a nice greyish film on all metal surfaces and would not attract any dust. As I recall, it was designed to keep the AR's/M-16's running without turning wet lubes into sludege in the action. Whatever happened to that stuff and I wonder if someone could bring it back and give it a try in that part of the world? It made actions absolutly "greasy" feeling without a drop of moisture.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

re Dri-slide: ran a search, seems the company is alive and well with an extensive product line. Some folks on the board say the Militech still attracts dust, despite the ad copy. Does Dri-slide form a completely dry coating, or just less greasy than CLP? Would I have to recoat my Dri-slided mags every so often? Is Dri-slide also successful for coating other moving parts, including (I know, dumb question) the slide?

Very interesting point on covering up the round-count holes, I'll have to try that. So far as covering the top of the mag: I usually store my mag top-down in a pouch, don't know how much that helps. I'm under the vague impression that I've seen magazine caps that cover the top of a mag. Maybe I can wedge one of those into the bottom of the pouch so that it will separate from the mag when the mag is drawn.

Still interested in purchasing civillian magazines. Will ProMag or MecGar mail me "high capacity" postban magazines if I send in my order on official unit letterhead?

I don't want to try to be a wanna-be armorer, but if there are any other simple, non-invasive things I can do to an issue M9 (replace recoil spring, etc), those would be great to know.

I wasn't so worked up about my M9 last time, as I had an M16A2 as well. Mostly carried the M9 because it would be irresponsible to lock it up in my seabag and leave it in Kuwait (which some officer allegedly did). This time, however, an M9 might be all I get, as I might be a translator/ community liaison officer this time around, so I'm a bit more motivated to try anything.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[sgt127]

Dri Slide

When the carrier evaporates in 2-3 minutes, all thats left is a dry powder film that sticks to everything and is slicker than all get out. On the outside of the gun, that crap will make you miserable, EVERYTHING it touches will have smudges on it. But, on the insides, I recall it worked like a champ. And again, its bone dry once the carrier evaporates. I don't recall any claims as far as rust protection and I doubt it would be any good for that. I used it in the guts of several S&W revolvers, very slick action. Felt Much like the old Gunslik lube.

And yes, it would work well on any moving parts, slide, sear, pivots etc. Unless you take it off with a solvent, I don't think it will ever go away until it flat wears off.

 

[JohnKSa]

I think graphite based lubes are a serious no-no on aluminum weapons...

 

[sgt127]

I don't THINK its Graphite...

Best definition I could come up with real quick...


molybdenum sulfide (plural mo·lyb·de·num sul·fides) or molybdenum disulfide (plural mo·lyb·de·num di·sul·fides)

noun

black crystalline powder used as a lubricant: a black crystalline powder that is insoluble in water and is used as a lubricant. MoS2

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

wolf XP mag springs should help.

 

[VG]

Midways USA has factory 15 round mags for $21.50.

That's a good price, given that the going rate is like $50.00...

Beretta 15-Round Magazine Beretta 92F 9mm Luger Steel Blue