Curios and Relics License

[giggitygiggity]

Hi, I am interested in obtaining an FFL03 Curios and Relics license. The procedure and the rules/laws surrounding the license seem simple and easy to follow. I am in the military, but retain residence in my home state. I also keep all my firearms in my home state. Is there any issue with keeping my home state as the place of collection, even though I usually only get back there about a month out of the year?

Also, I saw on the application form that it mentioned partners... can I designate other people as partners so that we can basically share the license? I was kind of confused by this part.

Also, in item 9 for the position, can I list everyone as a partner or does someone have to be the owner and the rest can be partners? Finally, for block 14 where initials are required, does everyone need to initial or just one person?

If I list myself and three other people on the form as all being partners, can we all use the license to purchase C&R firearms?

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or knowledge about this. I just don't want to make any mistakes or have to submit the application again. Thanks!

 

[giggitygiggity]

When firearms are delivered to your house, does the C&R holder have to sign anything? I only ask because I'm not in my home state much and I don't want to have to sign for something every time I order a gun if I only get back once or twice a year. If that's the case, I'd have to time my purchases with when I'll be home.

The remaineder of the year, my parents are at my place of residence in my home state. Can they accept the mail? I am just not familiar if the guns come just like any other piece of mail or if their is some kind of procedure upon their arrival that requires the C&R and only the C&R holder's presence. Thanks.

 

[Telekinesis]

The guns are usually shipped "adult signature required" so anyone can sign for it, but you will need to put the gun in your bound book upon receipt. I guess you could have your parents do that though.

I think you can have multiple people on the license if you are licensing a corp and they are all officers of the corporation, but I think that's a little too much work for a C&R license. For what it's worth, I use my C&R for discounts much more often than I buy guns with it.

 

[jonnyc]

The 01 and 03 use the same form. All that gruntle about partners, business hours, etc., is for the 01. Just fill out the bits that are relevant to an individual private collector.

 

[cfullgraf]

But my UPS driver and I go back 23 years. YMMV.

You are lucky. Seems like we get a new driver every couple weeks and I have to educate them on where to leave packages.

Apologizes for the side track.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Okay, thanks. That all sounds good and answers my questions!

 

[wisconsin]

Ups left a Garand sitting in front of my apartment, so tracking is your best friend. Along the lines of your folks im not to sure. I live with my wife and her sister and have had a few c&r's delivered while i was at work. I think as long as they dont open it (i.e. take possession) its ok. But keep in mind i was just at work, not actually away from home. Also...I am not a lawyer. Ask the ATF, best advice i can give.

 

[wally]

Do it! If for no other reason its worth it for the discounts you can get from Midway and Brownell's once you sign up as a dealer.

 

[jonnyc]

Yeah, I thought alot about the savings I'd get with my C&R. It's so easy to use that I've probably gotten about 50 guns I never would have otherwise. So much for those big savings.

 

[Dentite]

Just sent in my first renewal. The one thing I was a little uncomfortable about was sending a copy of the renewal application to my local chief LEO. Only because on the renewal it asks for how many C&R firearms you have added in the last three years and how many you have dispensed. I just don't like to advertise that kind of information and who knows how many eyes might end up viewing that at the station. My concerns are strictly theft related concerns.

 

[kidobutai]

A question. Would a C& R license allow you to attend the SHOT show in Vegas? Since it is not open to the public?

 

[Telekinesis]

A question. Would a C& R license allow you to attend the SHOT show in Vegas? Since it is not open to the public?

I doubt it. SHOT is an industry show, and as a collector you're not really in the industry. A C&R license just means you're a dedicated customer.

 

[Outlaw Man]

SHOT requires an FFL 01 if you're using a license to achieve admission. You basically need to have proof you're doing business....which you aren't allowed to do with a C&R.

 

[il.bill]

Yeah, I thought alot about the savings I'd get with my C&R. It's so easy to use that I've probably gotten about 50 guns I never would have otherwise. So much for those big savings.

This is one of the most important points made in this thread. It can be just a little TOO EASY to purchase eligible firearms with a C&R 03FFL. An appropriate bit of restraint is called for once you start seeing all those 'bargains' that are available.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I called ATF and they said that I could make apply for the C&R License as a partnership. Has anyone gotten and C&R as a partnership? For the part where I have to list the name of the partnership, can I call it whatever I want? Also, can everyone's position be "partner." I am assuming that if I get the license as a partnership with my dad and brothers that the license would be in the name of the partnership and anyone listed on the application would be able to buy guns in the name of the partnership?

I asked the ATF lady about it, but she was mean and made it seem like it was an inconvenience for her to do her job and she left me a little confused. I just don't want to have to submit the application more than once. Thanks.

 

[Telekinesis]

For the part where I have to list the name of the partnership, can I call it whatever I want? Also, can everyone's position be "partner."

....

I asked the ATF lady about it, but she was mean and made it seem like it was an inconvenience for her to do her job and she left me a little confused.

A partnership is a contractual obligation between you and another person (or multiple people). You can't really just put a bunch of people down on a FFL application and call it a partnership. There are two types of partnerships, general and limited, and you'll have to figure out which one works for you (most likely general, but that's up to you). If you use a partnership for a FFL, the ATF will likely want proof of the partnership, which would mean you need a written contract between you and the rest of the partners (I would recommend having a lawyer draft the articles).

The lady at the ATF you spoke with probably thought it was an inconvenience because it's not her job to explain how to create a legal partnership. That's a conversation for a lawyer.

 

[AlexanderA]

I would second what Telekinesis said about partnerships. While it's true that a partnership or corporation (but not a trust) can apply for an 03 C&R license, there's a bit of a paradox. Such a license is only for enhancing a personal collection, and does not authorize the holder to engage in the gun business. Yet, partnerships and corporations are essentially business entities. There's a host of practical problems in such an arrangement. Which of the "partners" would have physical custody of the collection, and which would maintain the "bound book"? Who would be the point of contact when the ATF comes around to do its audits? What happens when the ATF auditor wants to see the guns to see if they correspond with the entries in the "bound book"?

I would keep it simple and apply for the license as an individual. Actually, maybe you should rethink the whole idea of getting one. Personally, I think the benefits of having a C&R license have been oversold. I had one for years (as well as a regular 01 license) and finally reached the point where I felt it wasn't worth the hassle. Remember that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Ok, that clears it up. Yeah that ATF lady was a bitch and a half. She had a crummy attitude from the get-go before I even asked her about the partnership piece. I almost yelled at her because she was so rude and I may just write a letter about her.

That's what I was getting at... I didn't think that it would be just as simple as writing down names, calling it whatever I wanted, and then sending in the application. I figured that there had to be some legal basis for the partnership.

 

[jonnyc]

Giggity, all that "partnership" stuff is for a business. A C&R license does not allow you to engage in business, therefore anything related to business is not relevant to your 03 application. Ignore it.

 

[giggitygiggity]

Thanks for the info. I'll be sending in my individual application tomorrow!

 

[Boostedtwo]

This sounds like something id be interested in, now is there a certain place people with c&r licenses are purchasing firearms for cheap?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 4

 

[slumlord44]

It is not unusual for an ATF person to not know what they are talking about when it comes to the C&R. Individual only is the correct answer. Newly acquired guns are supposed to be entered in your bound book within 24 hours of receipt as I recall. I never saw anything that says who has to enter it, jut that it has to be entered. Love my C&R for all the reasons stated here. $10 a year is a bargain if you use it once or twice.

 

[chrisTx]

I'm going to let my license expire at the beginning of next year. I've had it over a decade, but the weapons being sold now are nothing compared to what was available 7-8 years ago. A war time M44 with all matching parts for $50 is a thing of the past.

 

[T2K]

I am away from home most of the time. I have C&R orders delivered there, my dad receives them, I keep my bound book (which is actually an Excel file) updated.

I've had a C&R for 10 years and it's true that the Swiss K31's, Yugo M48's, Soviet M44's / M38's / M91/30's, Indian Refurb Enfields, etc are not as plentiful and cheap as they once were.

But there is still cool stuff out there for good prices. CZ-82 pistol (9mm Makarov, 12 round mag capacity) is a good example.

 

[Telekinesis]

I am away from home most of the time. I have C&R orders delivered there, my dad receives them, I keep my bound book (which is actually an Excel file) updated.

Excel is not allowed to be used as a substitute for a bound book because it does not track changes to data that is already entered. The ATF wants to know if something has been changed (such as scratching something out in a book) but excel doesn't show that.

You either need a real book, or you need a software that is approved by the ATF to be used in place of a bound book. Or you can obtain a variance from the ATF, but I don't think that'll be very likely. Excel is a great way to keep track of what weapons you have in inventory (and I use it myself) but it does not satisfy the requirements for an official bound book.