Curious about PMCs

[Heavy Metal Hero]

I was curious about Private Military Companies, but I cannot seem to find much information on any except blackwater (even that is a stretch). I was just curious to know if anyone knew more about these companies? What are their requirements (as far as age, fitness, experience)? How well are they paid?

I know what you are thinking, "Great another wannabe commando!"

Nah that isn't it...I am just curious on how they relate to U.S. Military branches and the like. Thanks for your time.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

mercs

Any way you spin it, private contractors are mercenaries. I am not saying that is necessarily bad, although I am suspect. There will be good men who are doing good stuff with these companies, but remember, they are companies, and that has a lot of room for abuse. There were conflicts of interest in Iraq. There were contractors patrolling in New Orleans. The companies are not as loyal, as a rule, as a team in service. It worries me that more and more of our military/economic/strategic interests are enforced internationally with companies...it lessens responsibility in American foreign policy and keeps more people in the dark. The casualties of these companies become statistics, or "Contractor KIA". Nameless, faceless, forgotten. It's a great way to make cash, for sure, but a world filled with private armies acting in the interests of various government, selling to the highest bidder, is a world where free men are in danger everywhere.

ST

 

[ilbob]

It is certainly true that there is room for abuse when PMCs are hired but that is true no matter who has the guns. I don't see them as anything more than glorified security guards, and should operate under the same rules as security guards.

 

[wingnutx]

Try sending a PM to Nightcrawler.

 

[Striker]

Ahh, my personal hot button topic, as I am one.

SamTuckerMTNMAN said:

The companies are not as loyal, as a rule, as a team in service.

Is your assertion opinion or experienced based?

ilbob said:

I don't see them as anything more than glorified security guards, and should operate under the same rules as security guards.

Really? Come on down and particpate in the selection process and follow on basic, skill sustainment, and mission/task specifc training programs.


Heavy Metal:

What kind/type of contractors are you interested in... US Government? Iraqi Government? Business? NGOs?

Doing what...general security? training? infrastructure protection? mentoring? PSD? route security?

In permissive or non-permissive environments?

PM me if you wish.

 

[CornCod]

Its the logical outcome of our hyper-capitalist system, where Wall Street buys and sells nations like so many trinkets. I HOPE people join the US military in order to defend their country. There should be a bond between the military and the people. Soldiers and sailors are sworn to protect the constitution and thier loyalty to whatever bunch of coporate crooks that happen to control the government should not be unconditional. Most wars nowadays, including the one we are involved in now, have nothing to do with protecting our country. Some day the guys in uniform are going to figure it out. It might take awhile because military people are so authoritarian. When they do figure it out, however, I would not want to be one of the suits in Washington when that happens.

 

[zinj]

From my own research, most reputable PMC's want people who are experienced in their field. I.e. they want the soldiers to have served in a national army and been honorably discharged, the mechanics to have actually worked in shops etc.

Also, there are big differences in quality between different companies. Some are very professional and run a tight ship, while others tend toward the more common perceptions of mercenaries.

I have also seen some second and third hand stuff about "PMCs" being used as fronts, hiring unwary civilians without any real experience and just using them as cannon fodder.

 

[possum]

www.unitedpmc.com

 

[ktd]

I've worked with both military and contractors, and they both vary a lot. Lot of good guys in each and a lot of idiots in each. But yeah, a lot of people seem to know all about them without actually having met any.

As far as requirements, the golden age of contract security in Iraq is kinda over, so many companies seem to have gone back to being somewhat selective. Best way is if you have an in with someone already working for one. Otherwise, having a .mil or LEO background helps, but it varies depending on what slots a company has. Like any industry, you will have a lot of field guys who know what is going on and corporate stateside types who do not have a clue.



k

 

[Samarkand]

Richard Pelton's new book License to Kill deals with this very subject. I read the first few chapters. It has the slightly gonzo style of his other works likeWorld's Most Dangerous Places, although the sarcastic humour of WMDP is toned down. I don't know his precise politics. But he's comfortable among military men and the wilder parts of the world. He treats the PMC's and their world as a complex subject that has a lot of moral ambiguities.

Good book--I should fine time to read further. There's an eye-opening chapter where he interviews an "old guard" ex-Green Beret and CIA contractor who worked in Vietnam during the Air American and MACV-SOG period. Both fascinating and chilling.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Got Google?

Triple Canopy
L-3Com
Graystone (Blackwater's new international effort)
MPRI
DynCorp
CACI
Titan Corp
3D Global
Vinnell

There's lots more, many of them smaller (much smaller) than the big operations, but that's a start fwiw. The PMCs sometimes reflect a bit of the 'flavor' of the service the founder came from, but the business is so much its own thing that it would be hard to notice from the outside, especially with the larger companies.

hth,

lpl/nc

 

[cbsbyte]

Private Military Contractors is just a PC name for a company that provides Mercenaries to governments. As most of us know, mercenaries have been around since ancient times. The British hired Hessian mercenaries during the Revolutionary War. France has their own Merc unit, the infamous, Foreign Legion. The Mercs have always have been surrounded in a negative light, most times justifiably do to their actions in the field. Many people think of them as nothing but uncivilized goons who have no ethics. They are hired guns who have no loyalty except to the highest bidder. They gained prominence after WWII do to the large numbers of ex soldiers whom where good at what they did for years... fighting. Personally, I do not trust them and do not like them being used in combat. There is too much room for abuse, since they do not fight under the same rules of engagement in war. In addition, many Western countries, banned the creation, and use of mercenaries. On the other hand, a positive for Mercs, is that their use does free our soldiers from doing security details for politicians etc in occupied countries. Therefore, it is a double edge sword using them.

 

[ilbob]

ilbob said:

I don't see them as anything more than glorified security guards, and should operate under the same rules as security guards.

Really? Come on down and particpate in the selection process and follow on basic, skill sustainment, and mission/task specifc training programs.

Please read what I said. They should be treated like we treat any private security force, because that is what they are.

 

[Manedwolf]

No matter how one tries to spin it, there's one basic, unavoidable fact.

A member of the volunteer military is loyal to the United States and its people, and swears an oath to protect and uphold the Constitution.

A PMC, or yes, mercenary, is first and foremost loyal to whomever gives them their paycheck. Period. A good number will work for foreign governments, not just the US.

And the founding fathers DID NOT LIKE THEM. Read what they wrote about the Hessians.

 

[zinj]

They gain promince after WWII do to the large numbers of ex soliders who where good at what they did for years... fighting.

Thats part of it, but what has shaped modern mercenaries the most was the the abandonment of the European colonies in Africa. The amount of mercenary actions that happened there were staggering, and some still continue to this day. There was a scandal a only couple of years ago with a South African unit trying to move weapons through Zimbabwe to use in a guerilla campaign in another Sub-Saharan nation that resulted in South Africa finally passing law prohibiting PMC's from operating there.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

wasn't a direct critique

I'll clarify. I wasn't saying the guys themselves are less loyal, but that the companies tend to be less committed, or have less assets dedicated to the rescue of captured contractors. And do know, my calling them 'mercs' is not necessarily a bad thing. If you have the time, love the training, don't like the military systems, are highly qualified, want cash, need the adrenaline...it may be the right thing for you. I am simply suspect of hired guns on a large scale...the connection between citizens and soldiers, country and mission, policy and application of force, gets clouded with companies (as if it's not clouded enough already ). If standing armies weren't trusted in our republic's early days, how would they feel about standing private paramilitary corporations?

The fellows on this post are likely walking the high road, but think about the future. What will these men be 'fighting for'? Are these things worth your life, what kind of men do contract positions attract, will all companies uphold the ideals of loyalty to country as the military? IBM is a respectable company - they were also instrumental in keeping track of people under Nazi Germany, playing an instrumental role in the holocaust.
st

my respect to those who have fought against fascism, terrorism, in any form around the world. to those who have sacrificed or lost friends, my prayers go out to you and your families, only those who have been there really understand. . .

 

[Manedwolf]

think about the future. What will these men be 'fighting for'?

$

That simple.

 

[Striker]

SamTuckerMTNMAN:

I appreciate the clarification.

Manedwolf:

Nope, its not about the money ( I took a 35% cut in pay to do this). In my case (and the guys I work with) its about continuing to contribute in a meaningful way to something that I believe in and would die for i.e " to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" using my 30+ years of experience.

Is my experience unique?....perhaps, but then I've been with the same company (with an ethical philosphy I share) since the beginning of the GWOT.

I've refused employment offers (with some pretty substantial compensation packages) with several companies who I considered to be less then ethical. I've terminated employees in my current contract who didn't get it. My company has left "money on the table" for proposals considered to be shady.

Are there abuses? yep sure are and they are not to be condoned or tolerated. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.