Cutting vintage S&W for moon clips- heretical or practical?

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NIGHTLORD40K

NIGHTLORD40K

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So, Ive got a line on an immaculate M25-2 in .45LC for a good price, but Im not a fan of the cartridge, nor do I want to stock yet another caliber in my depot if I can help it.

I am, however, sitting on copious amounts of .45 ACP and even a few boxes of .45 Autorim (for my Dads M1917).

Im seriously considering picking up this gun and sending the cylinder to TK Customs to have it machined for moon clips, thereby allowing it to chamber all 3 rounds.

Given the current (and future) ammo shortages, would this be prudent or just........ wrong........... to deface such a nice old revolver?
 
Guns are tools. I buy them with the idea of using them. If they need modification so be it. I acquired a ‘73 Browning Hi Power sport model with the tall obnoxious adjustable “beer can” sights. It is in near mint condition. I plan on carrying it, so it is at the smith getting Novak’s installed which requires milling the slide. The gunsmith asked if I was certain I wished to do that. I told him I am not a collector, I am a shooter and plan on using it for CCW. He agreed the sights are kind of cumbersome.
 
mokin said:
Could you have another cylinder machined for it?
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Locating a spare cylinder and ratchet might be tough, not to mention probably blow the total cost out of the water. Currently, the gun is cheap enough that adding the $250 for machining and the clips still brings the total project up to approx. what most M25s are selling for.
 
DR505 said:
Guns are tools. I buy them with the idea of using them. If they need modification so be it. I acquired a ‘73 Browning Hi Power sport model with the tall obnoxious adjustable “beer can” sights. It is in near mint condition. I plan on carrying it, so it is at the smith getting Novak’s installed which requires milling the slide. The gunsmith asked if I was certain I wished to do that. I told him I am not a collector, I am a shooter and plan on using it for CCW. He agreed the sights are kind of cumbersome.
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Ya, I got super lucky on mine. The shop I got it from just happened to have a spare slide in the display case. It had been there for years, lol.
index-23.jpg

Though not the "beer cans" these target sights are just hideous-and not very useful as they utilize dual set screws for windage adjustment. I kinda loathe the pressed in barrel bushing too. Novaks would be nice, but the little combat sight work ok for me too.
 
NIGHTLORD40K, you are probably quite correct about the cost, but mokin's suggestion reminded me of the Gun Digest Annual for 1981: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-Gun-Digest-Book-35th-Annual-Edition-Ken-Warner-/190417160720

The revolver on the cover is just what he suggested. I suppose 40 years ago it could be done for a lot less, even allowing for inflation.

BTW, the Ebay auction is just the first thing I found that had a good picture of the cover. I don't know anything about the seller or the copy he is selling. I do own a copy of that Annual though, so there must have been other stuff in it I liked. They are too bulky to keep for just one article.
 
You really cannot machine a cylinder to shoot 45 Colt, 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim. Typically you only get two of the three, 45 ACP and 45 Auto-Rim OR 45 Colt and 45 ACP. You typically machine a cylinder differently if the primary cartridge is rimmed vs rimless.

With a rimmed cartridge like 45 Colt you typically leave a rim around the outside edge of the cylinder. This raise rim allows the rimmed cartridge to head space with or with out a moonclip present. The picture below is a 357 Magnum but it is cut for moonclips and you can see the raised rim around the outside of the cylinder, thus allowing un-moonclipped cartridges to headspace correctly. So with a 45 Colt you would machine the cylinder similarly allowing 45 Colt to work with or without the moonclip and 45 ACP only with a moonclip. 45 Auto-Rim would not work as 45 AR's rim is so thick that it would not allow the cylinder to close.

8pbC9Rql.jpg
357 Magnum cylinder cut for moonclips, but no moonclip present


With a rimless cartridge like a S&W 625 chambered in 45 ACP the cylinder is typical machined flat with no raise rim around the outside of the cylinder since there is no rim to use it to head space with 45 ACP. This face is machined flat for ease of manufacture and so that a 45 ACP with a moonclip head spaces correctly and thus 45 Auto Rim must have a rim as thick as both a 45 ACP rim and the moonclip. If the chambers were lengthened to 45 Colt length the cartridge would have nothing to head space against as face of the cylinder is be too far forward for the 45 Colt Rims to head space against. Even if you put the 45 Colt on moonclips they would likely not head space correctly due to how much thinner 45 Colt moonclips are then 45 ACP moonclips.

Zj361IYl.jpg
45 ACP without a moonclip.
The ring you might see around my cylinder her is not raised that is simply were the edge of the moonclips has burnished the stainless there. The face of this cylinder is flat.

Personally I would cut the 25 to use moonclips. You can still use 45 Colt with or without moonclips and 45 ACP on moonclips is one of the true joys of owning a revolver. Moonclips rule!
 
mcb said:
You really cannot machine a cylinder to shoot 45 Colt, 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim. Typically you only get two of the three, 45 ACP and 45 Auto-Rim OR 45 Colt and 45 ACP. You typically machine a cylinder differently if the primary cartridge is rimmed vs rimless.

With a rimmed cartridge like 45 Colt you typically leave a rim around the outside edge of the cylinder. This raise rim allows the rimmed cartridge to head space with or with out a moonclip present. The picture below is a 357 Magnum but it is cut for moonclips and you can see the raised rim around the outside of the cylinder, thus allowing un-moonclipped cartridges to headspace correctly. So with a 45 Colt you would machine the cylinder similarly allowing 45 Colt to work with or without the moonclip and 45 ACP only with a moonclip. 45 Auto-Rim would not work as 45 AR's rim is so thick that it would not allow the cylinder to close.

View attachment 983284
357 Magnum cylinder cut for moonclips, but no moonclip present


With a rimless cartridge like a S&W 625 chambered in 45 ACP the cylinder is typical machined flat with no raise rim around the outside of the cylinder since there is no rim to use it to head space with 45 ACP. This face is machined flat for ease of manufacture and so that a 45 ACP with a moonclip head spaces correctly and thus 45 Auto Rim must have a rim as thick as both a 45 ACP rim and the moonclip. If the chambers were lengthened to 45 Colt length the cartridge would have nothing to head space against as face of the cylinder is be too far forward for the 45 Colt Rims to head space against. Even if you put the 45 Colt on moonclips they would likely not head space correctly due to how much thinner 45 Colt moonclips are then 45 ACP moonclips.

View attachment 983285
45 ACP without a moonclip.
The ring you might see around my cylinder her is not raised that is simply were the edge of the moonclips has burnished the stainless there. The face of this cylinder is flat.

Personally I would cut the 25 to use moonclips. You can still use 45 Colt with or without moonclips and 45 ACP on moonclips is one of the true joys of owning a revolver. Moonclips rule!
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Ahh, thanks for the clarification. The ability to use Autorim is not that critical, as that ammunition is rare anyway. It would primarily be shot with ACP, and occasionally with LC when available.

I see I am not the only fan of Mobil 1 red bearing grease on ratchet teeth.:D
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Ahh, thanks for the clarification. The ability to use Autorim is not that critical, as that ammunition is rare anyway. It would primarily be shot with ACP, and occasionally with LC when available.

I see I am not the only fan of Mobil 1 red bearing grease on ratchet teeth.:D
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Yep love that grease for revolver stars and a few other places on various guns. I have an old plastic syringe that I just keep refilling from the tub as it gets empty.
 
mcb said:
Yep love that grease for revolver stars and a few other places on various guns. I have an old plastic syringe that I just keep refilling from the tub as it gets empty.
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I use it in place of Lubriplate on my Garand-derived guns. Parkerizing holds it in place exceptionally well. It also sees duty on my AKs, and in a few spots on the ARs.
 
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Thanks. I have been pondering the same thing with a S&W 25. I think some of it would depend on the condition of the gun. As I load for 45LC it is less of a "need" for me as I can feed it mild to wild for about the same price as loading ACP. However, it would be a nice option to have at times.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
45LC for a good price, but Im not a fan of the cartridge,
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Heresy .
I'll forgive you though.
If you want to cut up a gun for your preference , do it. 45 colt is only a million times better than acp but I guess that's an opinion . heavier bullets at higher velocity with less pressure sounds like a win/win/win but I'm a bit of a 45 colt nut.
If you're only wanting it to shoot 45 acp , I'd probably get something that won't require any work to get it going.
 
Obturation said:
Heresy .
I'll forgive you though.
If you want to cut up a gun for your preference , do it. 45 colt is only a million times better than acp but I guess that's an opinion . heavier bullets at higher velocity with less pressure sounds like a win/win/win but I'm a bit of a 45 colt nut.
If you're only wanting it to shoot 45 acp , I'd probably get something that won't require any work to get it going.
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Oh I agree, and eventually would like to get set up for reloading LC, but in a practical sense I cant see laying away thousands of .45LC for just that one gun. I have many .45 ACP automatics, though, so the logistics favor it, thats all.
 
earplug said:
Look for a used 625
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Meh, not a fan of the newer ones. No MIM or locks for me thanks.

Plus, they look goofy with the shorter cylinders, IMO.

This gun is a 95% blued example with TH, TT, TG, with a pinned barrel. Honestly, the seller is giving it away, too- by todays standards.

I doubt I could find a decent 625 for much less than the cost of this gun with the machining included.
 
I may be wrong, my knowledge Is very limited but unless I’m mistaken, and I may be, if you have a 25-2 chambered in 45lc you have a very rare gun, to be honest I’m not sure they even made such a thing. If it is I’d say it’s likely worth double a 25-2 in 45acp, possibly more.

I have to ask, are you sure it’s not 45acp?
 
StrawHat said:
One problem with switching cartridges is you also need to adjust the sights. Not really sure it is worth all the hassle!
Kevin
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I wondered about that when I saw that the interchangeable cylinder revolver on the cover of the '81 Gun Digest had fixed sights. I'll have to try to dig it up and see if they remark on that.
 
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