CWP holder shoots armed robber in SC Waffle House

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jshrop6004

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http://www.goupstate.com/article/20120121/ARTICLES/120129934/1083/ARTICLES?p=1&tc=pg

"A customer, who is a concealed weapons permit holder, thwarted the robbery by pulling his gun and attempting to hold the men until deputies arrived. When one of the men pointed his gun at the customer, the patron fired, killing the teenager."

Also good info on Spartanburg's Sheriff Chuck Wright at end of article. Several weeks ago after a brutal attack on a woman in a park he urged all citizens to obtain their CWP.

Since then there have been numerous home invasions & robberies thwarted by CWP holders in Spartanburg County. Good, honest, hard working folks are tired of the thugs and doing something about it.
 
Tragic that someone so young should die, but in the end he pretty much made the decision to get shot.
 
"A customer, who is a concealed weapons permit holder, thwarted the robbery by pulling his gun and attempting to hold the men until deputies arrived. When one of the men pointed his gun at the customer, the patron fired, killing the teenager."
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I find this a bit odd, but guess I hadn't thought about it completely.

Why would a customer 'attempt to hold the men until deputies arrived'?

Shouldn't the priority be the safety of the innocent human life in the restaurant? As a civilian, wouldn't you insist that the armed thugs leave, instead of trying to make them stay in a standoff?

Sounds like this took one shot, but what if there were many shots back and forth? That's a lot of people behind both shooter's targets at risk.

What's the general opinion?
 
I find this a bit odd, but guess I hadn't thought about it completely.

Why would a customer 'attempt to hold the men until deputies arrived'?

Shouldn't the priority be the safety of the innocent human life in the restaurant? As a civilian, wouldn't you insist that the armed thugs leave, instead of trying to make them stay in a standoff?

Sounds like this took one shot, but what if there were many shots back and forth? That's a lot of people behind both shooter's targets at risk.

What's the general opinion?
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My general opinion is to stop the threat. If that can be accomplished by ordering the perps to disarm and get down on the floor and wait for the police, then fine. If one or more of the perps decides to try and shoot his way out, well, that's less than desirable. But to draw your weapon and tell them to get out? Totally unacceptable IMO. You're turning armed thugs loose back into the public just to get them out of your immediate area? Huh-uh.

My general opinion is to not get involved in an armed robbery if at all possible, let 'em take the money and git, but always have a plan to react if necessary. But if there appears to be a genuine threat of imminent violence from the BG's against anyone, that's a different story and action is necessary.

In this case, when the robbers started ordering customers to the floor and employees to the back room, they took this from a simple armed robbery to the next level. The permit holder hadn't acted until this point, sounds like he was prepared to let them take the money and run but then they took it to the point where action was required.

I feel sorry for the kid's family, but hey...play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
 
Sounds like he did the right thing. The article's storyline is a little different than the summary.

I would be concerned if anyone tried to get me to lay on the ground or move to the freezer. Rob the place of you want, but . . .
 
In this case, when the robbers started ordering customers to the floor and employees to the back room, they took this from a simple armed robbery to the next level. The permit holder hadn't acted until this point, sounds like he was prepared to let them take the money and run but then they took it to the point where action was required.
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You know what, there are 2 threads and links for this topic posted (the other in the legal section). I assumed they went to the same article, but clearly, they do not. The other link lacked details.

Now seeing that they were ordering the employees to the back and customers down, it's easy to understand and support with the actions taken.

But to draw your weapon and tell them to get out? Totally unacceptable IMO. You're turning armed thugs loose back into the public just to get them out of your immediate area?
Click to expand...

Your response lacked a very likely hypothetical senario. You draw your weapon and order the criminals to the ground but INSTEAD they start to run and flee (without shooting or even pointing), are you saying you would use deadly force to stop them from "returning to the public?".
 
cskny said:
Your response lacked a very likely hypothetical senario. You draw your weapon and order the criminals to the ground but INSTEAD they start to run and flee (without shooting or even pointing), are you saying you would use deadly force to stop them from "returning to the public?".
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In circumstances like that, if it's time for me to draw a firearm, I'm not ordering anyone to do anything. They can run if they want - in fact I'd prefer it - but they'd better be fast.

R
 
facts reported are often incomplete or inaccurate

the robbers began ordering customers to the floor and employees into the back - while waving a gun - to act. After pulling his .45-caliber Glock, the customer ordered the men to stay put until deputies arrived. Only after Williams pointed his Hi-Point 9mm at the man, did the customer fire
Click to expand...
 
My comments:

1. Being present at a robbery is bad enough. Being told to lay on the ground while employees were ordered to the back should send up a BIG red flag that reads Robbery/Execution of Witnesses.

2. The armed citizen acted as a calm, cool, responsible citizen, which is admirable considering the "I don't want to get involved" attitude too many take. He realized that he was involved, that the outcome could be Very Bad, and took appropriate action. Only the continued stupidity of the now dead robber forced him to employ deadly force. And that deadly force was one, simple, well-aimed shot from a major-caliber weapon that accomplished the desired effect. The citizen deserves an award and free meals from Waffle House.

If all citizens were like him, the crime of Robbery would all but disappear.

Tragic that someone so young should die, but in the end he pretty much made the decision to get shot.
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Absolutely. He had the initiative and was in charge of the situation--up until the citizen pulled his weapon. At that point, the robber lost the initiative and no longer in-charge. The robber tried to regain the initiative, but was a trigger-pull too late. No one told him that having a gun wouldn't make him tough, but having it accompanied by the training, skill, and mindset to use it made the citizen undefeatable.
 
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"If all citizens were like him, the crime of Robbery would all but disappear."

^^^+1
 
It sounds like the citizen acted about as I would have. I'd likely have kept my seat with my hand on or near my gun. Al least up to the point where the BG started ordering people down and to the back of the restaurant.

If they'd have just barged in and taken the contents of the register I'd have sat still.

No good comes from being herded into a compromising situation.

I have no sympathy for this kid. He chose stupid. This time a Glock fixed stupid.

If all citizens were like him, the crime of Robbery would all but disappear."
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Agreed. As the quote goes: "An armed society is a polite society."

ETA: I'm also glad to see the story not spun with an 'anti' slant.
 
We dont know that there were other people behind his target. So lets not assume it. He could have been at a table off to one side, or something.

Im just happy to see some law enforcement telling people essentially "get your permit defend yourself."
 
cskny said:
I find this a bit odd, but guess I hadn't thought about it completely.

Why would a customer 'attempt to hold the men until deputies arrived'?

Shouldn't the priority be the safety of the innocent human life in the restaurant? As a civilian, wouldn't you insist that the armed thugs leave, instead of trying to make them stay in a standoff?

Sounds like this took one shot, but what if there were many shots back and forth? That's a lot of people behind both shooter's targets at risk.

What's the general opinion?
Click to expand...

This sounds like anti-gun liberal rhetoric to me.



Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless
 
For sure two more important events will happen:

1. The good citizen that stepped in to protect the public from two armed men will get a Lawsuit from the relatives. It will cost him a fortune to defend that Lawsuit. :mad:

2. The Armed Robbers buddy with the mask, who ran away will be caught and charged with Murder. He will get the pill.
 
Does SC law prevent the BG's relatives from suing the Citizen?

I used to live in Oklahoma and they have provisions preventing criminals from suing in their SDA laws.
 
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***UPDATE***

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20120122/ARTICLES/120129906/1083/ARTICLES?p=1&tc=pg

"The suspect wanted in a Waffle House robbery on Saturday that left a second suspect dead was arrested later that night.

Kenneth Jowan Craig, 29, of 408 Abner Road, Apt. A-36, Spartanburg, has been charged by the Spartanburg County Sheriff’s Office with armed robbery and possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime, according to a news release.

Lt. Tony Ivey said in written statement that investigators took Craig into custody without incident at a location off of Alexander Avenue."

Good Job Sheriff's Dept.!
 
Wow, did anyone else make this connection:

Spartanburg County sheriff’s deputies responded to the Waffle House at 2230 Chesnee Highway just before 1:15 a.m. Saturday.
...
Deputies said Dante Lamont Williams, 19, pointed his gun at Harrison, who is a concealed weapons permit holder. Harrison shot Williams in the head and chest.
...
Saturday was Williams’ 19th birthday.
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Hell of a way to spend your 19th birthday.

R
 
Oh, and after reading both articles, I have one more comment:

The only *man* in that restaurant was Harrison. I say that because anyone who called himself one would have stood up and helped Harrison restrain the second piece-of-trash.
 
If all citizens were like him, the crime of Robbery would all but disappear.
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't. Honest citizens have been armed and shooting robbers since guns were invented, and the robbers just keep coming. Go to a large gun museum some time, you'll be astounded at the thousands of varieties of pocket pistols that have been produced all over the world since the 1700's.

Now, if the laws were changed to allow honest citizens more latitude in self-defense, then that might make a difference.
 
1. The good citizen that stepped in to protect the public from two armed men will get a Lawsuit from the relatives. It will cost him a fortune to defend that Lawsuit.
Click to expand...

No. Perhaps where you are, but not here.

Does SC law prevent the BG's relatives from suing the Citizen?
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A lawsuit in these circumstances would have zero chance of winning.
 
Why is it so many here always assume that the family of the deceased bad guy will sue you into the poor house whenever something like this happens???
Fat chance something like that would happen here in Texas or for that matter most places in the south.
And perhaps the key ingredient here is the south which is a far cry in the way most people in New York or California think,react,and live.
Of course a lot here will diasagree with this statement and the endless lawyers guild talk will of course also get started.
 
Being a criminal should be a dangerous job. The most dangerous job in America.

Society is supposed to defend itself and in this incident, it appears it worked out exactly how it was supposed to.
 
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