CZ-452 FS or Marlin 60?

[dehughes]

Hey there,

I'm looking for a .22LR of some sort and have seemed to settle on either the CZ-452FS or a Marlin 60. I know they're different...both in price and design, but both seem to come highly recommended by many different sources. Basically I want something to be my one and only (for now) .22...mostly for target practice, perhaps the occasional varmint, etc... What do you all think of these two rifles?

 

[ArmedBear]

Best-in-class. Both of them.

Different classes.

 

[ROAshooter]

Can not add anything to what Armedbear stated

 

[Avenger29]

CZ. Get the CZ first.

 

[ArmedBear]

I might get the Marlin first, before their Remington ownership starts to show in the quality of the gun.

 

[dehughes]

Great. Thanks. I didn't know about Remington owning Marlin.

I do know they are different classes, but if one were to only own one (re., I can't afford both...).....which one?

 

[ArmedBear]

One's the best American basic semiauto, the other is the best value in a European bolt action.

Both are accurate. My Marlin 60 is amazingly so, given that it's an entry-level .22 rifle. The iron sights on the basic Marlin 60 aren't the fanciest, but I didn't care since I bought it to scope it.

The CZ will happily use a wider variety of ammo (true of virtually all manual actions vs. semiautos of any kind or caliber, including handguns, rifles and shotguns). The CZ trigger is wonderful.

I use the Marlin 60 for varmints. Depends on what varmints. I like having multiple quick shots for local whistle pigs.

For target shooting, again, that depends on the nature of the target. The 452FS comes with nice iron sights, also.

The CZ is about 3X the price of the Marlin. Again, depends on what you want.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Id go with the Marlin Model 60 as well. I concede that the CZ is probably more accurate in general but the 60 is accurate enough for a tiny squirells head. I have found the 60 to get dirty fast if shooting bulk packs but that is not a problem with me because I clean my guns. Detail stripping is tricky but can be learned. Not that you ever will really need to anyway.

 

[DMZ]

I have both rifles. Both are well scoped. Both are very accurate.

The CZ is very well manufactured. Fit and finish is better than many rifles costing twice as much. The iron sights are the best I have ever seen on any rifle. Very nice trigger.

The Marlin is lighter and quicker. The trigger is mooshy. I can be ammo finicky. The stock is soft wood and is easily dinged.

The one I use the most?


The Marlin. It just feels better, more comfortable, more balanced, shooting off hand with it.

 

[ArmedBear]

My 60 has a laminate stock (all new wood-stock 60s do, whether or not they appear "striped"). It hasn't had the dinging problem.

 

[d2wing]

My Marlin isn't even close to as accurate as my 2 cz-452 22s. The Lux will shoot a nickle size group at 75 yards from a rest. My American is fussier on ammo, but will do the same at 50 yards with target ammo.

 

[ArmedBear]

My 60 will shoot 1/2" 50-yard groups with CCI Mini-Mags. I've posted pictures of groups here before.

Target ammo to get that from a CZ? I think it'll do better than that, with ammo it likes, or maybe a better rest and a steadier hand. I've seen targets when I've shot with people who had CZs.

 

[d2wing]

True, these groups were kneeling with a folding tripod, not from a bench. I agree that a more serious effort would achieve better results, but this is field condition evaluation shooting 10 round groups. With more ammo testing at a bench this could be bettered using regular ammo. By target ammo I mean the cheaper Federal 510 stuff. Just trying to contribute some measured experience here, not trying to brag or compete. One guy's tack driver may not be by someone else's standards so I like to give measurements.

 

[ArmedBear]

When much of the inaccuracy are due to the conditions (nickel-sized groups are pretty darn good for field conditions BTW), measurements don't tell you anything about the rifle.

 

[d2wing]

You are correct. Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to a range. I generally do my target shooting in a farmer friends pasture with whatever I carry. I did learn that the CZ will shoot better than I can point it with a reasonable comparison of some different ammo. I'm pretty sure a critter within 50 yards is in serious danger.

 

[Maverick223]

Both are good rifles, pretty accurate, and good for the money...but I would go with a Savage Mk. II as it is less expensive (if that is not a factor go with the CZ) and IME just as accurate as the 452.

 

[chevyforlife21]

well one is 400 dollars, one is 80 dollars. i want a cz452 and cant afford it. however the 60 is a great gun it hardly jams. it has the next best accuracy over the cz. not horrible groups like most autos.

 

[rangerruck]

the marlin, for a cheap rifle, is wildly accurate, you have to step up to a cz type rifle, to get more accuracy really, which is a testament to the microgroove bbls, marlin has been using for 40 years now.
I have both and like both. I am going to go against my better judgement here; though the cz has a set trigger, and you can adust it from outside the rifle, and the trigger can be set down to mind control, and though it is sick accurate, and they are beautiful , lifetime keeper rifles, I am going to tell you to get the marlin. Why? because for a very accurate rifle like the cz, you can get the marlin, plus a rifle bag, cleaning equipment, rifle bag, ear muffs, glasses, extra supplies, sling, good scope, and a couple bricks of feddy / or winny, all for the same price as the cz. And be range ready.
make sure you get weaver tip off blocks from Kwik Sites, or a very good BKL single long mount, for the scope, as the mod 60, and all her variants, are wildly famous for 'scope walking' on their semi autos.

Also, just my pref; I would go to a gunshow, gunshop, or pawnshop, and get a used mod 60. there are tons of them out there, you can get them from 80 to 100 bucks, and you can get the older ones with a walnut stock.
Or try to find one, made between 85 and 88'; these are easy to see, they have the longer 22 inch bbl, and the feed tube goes almost all the way to the end of the rifle bbl, within 1 inch or less. and it should also have the little lever sticking down, on the right side front, of the trigger housing. Why get this one? Becuase the 85 to 88 models, were the only ones made, with the 18 or 19 round feed tube, plus the last shot bolt hold open lever(LSBHO). Starting in 89' , all semi auto's had to obey the 'New jersey rule' which cut the feed tube to a max of 14 rounds. Now all marlins, have a 19 inch bbl, and a 14 round feed tube.
they will have the feed tube, that comes almost to the end of the bbl
and they will look like this;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=141228890
but the above one has no LSBHO. not on the right side of the trigger guard.
it will look like this;
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=141138449

see the little curved shaped lever, towards the front, right side of the
trigger guard?

 

[Wishoot]

My Marlin, when it actually fires without a FTE or FTF, is pretty accurate. Unfortunately, I experience a FTE or FTF about every other round.

I don't have a CZ rifle, but if they are anything like their handguns, they're a winner.

 

[winter1857]

My opinion is worth absolutely doodley squat but I have an 452FS and it's a great rifle. I think that 50 years from now my FS will still be a great rifle. However, 50 years from now I think the Marlin 60 will be a cheap 50-year-old rifle.

To use a term I got from Jeff Cooper; my FS has a big "fondle factor"..... I just love it. It is worth three times the money I paid for it.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I would buy the CZ, IT IS ONE BEAUTIFUL RIFLE, that's worth the extra money IMHO.

 

[offthepaper]

Wishoot

Have you ever stripped , cleaned and lubed your rifle. I've never personaly seen a 60 that had FTF & FTE after a good clean and lube job.
Are you getting stove pipes jams?

Back on topic:

Another vote for the 60, unless the $$ are of no concern. I have 2 60's, and both shoot great. The CZ is nicer, no doubt. But you could have a 60 collection for the cost of the CZ and scope.

 

[benzy2]

I find bolt rifles more fun than semi autos so my first pick would be the CZ. I have three CZ rifles, 2 rimfire and one centerfire and couldn't be happier with any of them for the money I spent. CZ seems to be catching on in the states and prices seem to be rising faster than the rest of the market. I bought a 452 trainer NIB for $200 only 4 years ago and a 452 Varmint for $320 a month or two after the trainer. Prices have shot up a bit since then and honestly I don't know where they will stop. With people stating the rifles are as nice as those costing twice as much it is only a matter of time before they do cost twice as much. The model 60 will be around cheap for a long time. The used market has dirt cheap options available all the time. You hear people buying one from a pawn shop in good shape for $50-$75. I guess my view is if both go up in price X% that is going to equate to less dollars down the road if you get the CZ now and the model 60 later rather than the opposite.

If I have a few choices of rifles going through my head I try to think of what the value will be in the next few years. I picked up a new AR and an AK before the election figuring if I didn't like either their prices would be no worse than they were and at best I could sell a used rifle for a profit. It turned out prices jumped almost overnight and I decided I didn't really need two ARs. If money is tight don't overlook what will be the best buy compared to where the market will sit in a year or two or three when the next rifle purchase will be made. And as said before many model 60s can be found dirt cheap used that it will be fairly easy to pick one up cheap later on.

 

[dehughes]

Very good points, all. Thanks so much. It seems like I can't loose either way.

I do understand, though, about the CZ's being a great rifle forever, whereas the Marlin 60 will always be a good, cheap rifle. I suppose I'd rather put a bit more money into a great rifle...

That said, I like the idea about getting the CZ first and then getting the Marlin 60 afterwards.

 

[rangerruck]

whizshoot; take a eyeglass, take out the bolt assy., and look real close at the extractor thingies on the bolt assy. they should be perfect; if not straight, or look bendy or chewed up a bit, get with marlin and get new ones sent. They usually do this for free.
Also where the bolt face hits the chamber face, there is a depressioned ring around the chamber face like a trench, get a dental tool and remove all the crap around there. also where the extractor thing fits into that chamber face is notched; clean those notches out with same tool. then make sure outside of bolt assy., is clean and barely lubed, and make sure inside of receiver is clean.
also the guide rod should be clean and ultra smooth, and the spring should be clean, and not all bent and crimped up in places. i would only put one drop, of very thin electronic oil, on that guide rod, and one drop of it also, on all sides of the bolt assy., that is it. do not overlube a marlin 60 style bolt assy.
there is only more mod 60's and her variants out there, than all other semi auto 22's combined(remember I said, and her variants), and they have been making this rifle, basically unchanged, since 1960. And the 99's before that.
So if there was a reliability problem with them, I think they would've addressed the problem by now!!!