CZ - which one?

[rayatphonix]

I have all three; 452, 455, and 457. The 455 is in 17hmr and the others in 22lr. The 457 Americanism my favorite. You’ll be happy with it in either caliber.

 

[I6turbo]

Me and my boy went to the gun shop, and he really needs a compact. He's not quite big enough for a full LOP. So, I made a spreadsheet of all the major compact/youth 22s, by weight, LOP, overall length, and length of barrel and then sorted by weight. I'm going to buy him the CZ scout, with the idea that later on I can just buy a different stock if needed for him.

The 452 Scout is a great shooter that I enjoy even though it's a youth-size gun. Except for the fact that the small stock is significantly more difficult to shoot your best possible groups with than a bigger, heavier gun when shooting from a good bench-style setup, I think mine will pretty much shoot with any of my larger BRNO and CZ rimfires. I find the Weaver Grand Slam 4-16x44 to be an excellent and versatile scope for it. And it's a shocker for people who don't expect such quality and accuracy from a "youth" gun.



My son could shoot it well when he was 5 years old (with a different scope back then).


Here's the Scout metal in an Ultra Lux stock.

 

[adcoch1]

The 452 Scout is a great shooter that I enjoy even though it's a youth-size gun. Except for the fact that the small stock is significantly more difficult to shoot your best possible groups with than a bigger, heavier gun when shooting from a good bench-style setup, I think mine will pretty much shoot with any of my larger BRNO and CZ rimfires. I find the Weaver Grand Slam 4-16x44 to be an excellent and versatile scope for it. And it's a shocker for people who don't expect such quality and accuracy from a "youth" gun.

View attachment 899213

My son could shoot it well when he was 5 years old (with a different scope back then).
View attachment 899214

Here's the Scout metal in an Ultra Lux stock.
View attachment 899215

I really like it in the LUX stock. That would be a perfect knock around rifle...

 

[I6turbo]

.....But, now I want one for myself and I can't really find a decent price on a 452, so I think I'm going to get a 457 American.

What do you consider a decent price for a 452? The Americans routinely sell on GB in the $450 to $550 range or so, occasionally higher or lower. Here's an example of one that was on offer at a great price.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/859701626
A good price on a 457 American is $450+.

I just need to decide on 17HMR or a 22LR. I'm primarily just going to use it for squirrels, and I figure I'll head shoot them anyway, so why wouldn't I just get a 17 which has a longer range, and probably better accuracy? Can anyone sell me on why I shouldn't get the 17HMR?

Based upon your concern about cost mentioned above, and depending upon how much you plan to shoot it, ammo cost may be a consideration. Decent quality 22 LR target ammo is about $.10 per round (something like SK Standard Plus), and decent quality plinking ammo closer to $.05/round. Good quality 17 HMR ammo is going to run you closer to $.22 per round. Even if you pay $100 more for a 452 in .22 LR, you'll save that on ammo after about 600 rounds compared to the HMR. Or, looking at it another way, the HMR will cost you somewhere in the range of $120 - $170+ more per 1000 rounds to shoot than 22 LR (depending upon the grade of ammo you buy for each).

 

[mshootnit]

my 17 hmr tore a wabbit up pretty good at 90 yds. 17 hmr adds quite a bit of range and some accuracy. 17 HMR is louder.
Just be aware 17 HMR does tear stuff up more.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, there's a lot of nonsense surrounding CZ rimfires and their fans. Yes, they are nicely made rifles that often will have better than average wood. Guy at the local shop has a new 457 American with gorgeous fiddleback figure from one end to the other. Their accuracy is typically very good. However, I have a 452 and a brand new 457 and find no discernible difference in quality. I will say that I like the matte finish of the 457 over the brushed finish of the 452. What I do not like about the 452 is the bolt interference with a scope and the backwards safety. In both regards, the 457 is better. What I do not like about the 457 is some of the stock designs and the accuracy of mine is nothing to get excited about.

 

[CraigC]

I got distracted and forgot to address the cartridge choice. The .17HMR is a great cartridge but if you're planning on eating the small game you shoot with it, you'll have to use FMJ's or restrict yourself to head shots only. The .22Mag is highly destructive and the .17HMR is only worse. Contrary to what some believe, the .17 drifts less in a cross wind than the .22's. For me, for a small game gun, there is no beating the .22LR.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

i just put a bid in on a 452 scout and a 452 american 17HMR on gun broker. They look OK. Not perfect. I'll take accuracy over aesthetics... hoping for accuracy...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

on a different note, the gun shop said they were sold out of all 9mm ammo, and that so was cabelas, and that this is the highest quantity ammo sales and pistol sales that they have ever had. I guess this virus is helping at least one industry...

 

[HoosierHunter128]

I got distracted and forgot to address the cartridge choice. The .17HMR is a great cartridge but if you're planning on eating the small game you shoot with it, you'll have to use FMJ's or restrict yourself to head shots only. The .22Mag is highly destructive and the .17HMR is only worse. Contrary to what some believe, the .17 drifts less in a cross wind than the .22's. For me, for a small game gun, there is no beating the .22LR.

if i don't win those 452 auctions on gun broker, I'm just going to buy a new 457 scout 22 for my boy, and buy a 457 American in the 17 HMR for me. I haven't hunted squirrels since I was in high school. I'm pretty excited. Funny how your kids bring you back to those things, I love it. I'm only going to take head shots, and I absolutely eat everything I shoot. I know some don't, and really don't understand that. I get trapping, and that's for the $$$, but killing with no gain other than fun...i can't get on board.

 

[CraigC]

You can use the FMJ's and it'll work great on head shots but won't be too destructive on body shots. Heads are still preferable.

 

[I6turbo]

I will say that I like the matte finish of the 457 over the brushed finish of the 452. What I do not like about the 452 is the bolt interference with a scope and the backwards safety. In both regards, the 457 is better. What I do not like about the 457 is some of the stock designs and the accuracy of mine is nothing to get excited about.

I have three 452 American receivers and they have nice polished blue actions and barrels, not brushed or matte. Some of the other 452s have matte receivers and not-as-polished barrels, but the Americans are finished differently, both wood and metal. These are not great photos for showing the blue finish, but here are a couple of my Americans, also shown with a Lux where you can see the difference in the receiver finish.

This is a right handed American. The light gray look in the receiver and to some extent in the barrel in this photo is the overcast sky being reflected. Both are equally polished blue.


Here's an left-handed Lux on top and an American on the bottom, It's not the best angle but you can see the difference in the receiver finishes here.


Another shot of the LH American.


I have an FS in 22 Magnum that uses the American receiver and it was also nicely polished before bluing.

 

[Newtosavage]

New old stock 452s aren't that hard to find, and excellent used ones are easy to find unless one isn't willing to wait more than a few hours or not willing to buy anywhere other than the LGS. There are 10 or 12 new and used ones on GB at about any time, sometimes more than that.

Here's a 2007 model that I bought a few weeks ago, owner said that he'd shot it "very little" but it doesn't really look like he fired it, doesn't even look like he put the bolt in it and cycled it. A 2007 model is better than a new one, IMO, because even the 452s went through just a little bit of cost-cutting in the later years.

View attachment 898473

IMO, it's not worth it to everyone to hunt down a 452. People who connect with more old-school guns are more likely to appreciate the 452 (or the 455, which shares a LOT of attributes with the 452, but not all of them). People who had just as soon have a Ruger American Rimfire as to have a Winchester 52, or a Ruger American Rifle as a Winchester Model 70, so long as the Ruger shoots about as well, aren't as likely to appreciate the 452. It's a YMMV situation, but if you've never owned or handled a 452 (or a 550, or a 527) you can't say for sure how much you'd connect with them vs. more recent guns engineered to be manufactured more cost-effectively, including a lot more CNC machining. And then there are the BRNOs....

Man, if a more beautiful rifle was ever made, I'm not sure what it is. Congrat's on the 452.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

Ok. I didn't win the auction on the 452 scout, so i bought my boy a new 457 scout. Now I need to figure out a scope and rings. Does anyone know for certain what will work well for rings on the 457 scout. Right now, I think I'm going to get the Leupold VX Freedom Rimfire 2-7 x 33, unless someone talks me out of it. I'm looking at
BKL-257 rings in standard height. Any suggestions would be great.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

If i understand correctly, it'll take 11mm dovetail, and with the change of the bolt on the 457, you can use lower profile mounts

 

[Gtscotty]

I have a 455 with three barrels and I think the 457 is the way I'd go.

My 455 shoots great, but I do wish I could mount scopes lower without getting bolt interference. One big plus of the 457 is that the receiver is nitrocarburized, that's a very tough and corrosion resistant treatment that you don't see on many bolt guns. I've also read that the 457 will take 455 barrels, so there are existing aftermarket options.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

looks like WARNE 7.3 SERIES 1" MED RIMFRE MATTE will work too.. which rings would you choose

 

[cdb1]

Ok. I didn't win the auction on the 452 scout, so i bought my boy a new 457 scout. Now I need to figure out a scope and rings. Does anyone know for certain what will work well for rings on the 457 scout. Right now, I think I'm going to get the Leupold VX Freedom Rimfire 2-7 x 33, unless someone talks me out of it. I'm looking at
BKL-257 rings in standard height. Any suggestions would be great.

That’s an excellent scope. The only others I’d consider are the Freedom 3-9x33 EFR and Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9x32 AO.
As for rings I have Warne Rimfire rings on my two Rimfire rifles.

 

[HoosierHunter128]

That’s an excellent scope. The only others I’d consider are the Freedom 3-9x33 EFR and Clearidge Ultra RM 3-9x32 AO.
As for rings I have Warne Rimfire rings on my two Rimfire rifles.

Never heard of clearidge

 

[cdb1]

I found out about them on Rimfire Central. They are made by LOW in Japan. I don’t know about now but LOW made scopes for NightForce and made the Razor for Vortex. They make good scopes. You can google some info on them. I’ve had mine for eight years on a CZ 512 .22 Mag.

 

[CraigC]

I have three 452 American receivers and they have nice polished blue actions and barrels, not brushed or matte. Some of the other 452s have matte receivers and not-as-polished barrels, but the Americans are finished differently, both wood and metal. These are not great photos for showing the blue finish, but here are a couple of my Americans, also shown with a Lux where you can see the difference in the receiver finish.

Another shot of the LH American.
View attachment 899864

I have an FS in 22 Magnum that uses the American receiver and it was also nicely polished before bluing.

Your American (bottom pic) has a brushed finish, or equivalent to a 400grit "polish". Same as the barrel on my 452. The receiver of my rifle is a matte finish but not like the bead blasted finish of my new 457 but more like a parkerized finish. By contrast, the receiver of my old 541 is nicely polished, as are the Ruger American Rimfires, surprisingly.

Like I said, they are nice rifles but not perfect.



I got a really good deal on this rifle. I have a thing for Mannlicher stocks and only bought it for the wood. Had I known of the bolt interference issue and that the backwards safety would really bug me, I probably wouldn't have. It's beautiful and comfortable but those two things but the hell out of me. In fact, I haven't shot it in years and am thinking about trading it.

 

[I6turbo]

The finish on the 457s is a nitride coating, so a different animal altogether.

That FS of yours looks like it has great wood, and is in great condition, so it would probably bring $800+ on GB properly presented and without the scope, so at least you've got that going for you.

It's not correct that your 22LR FS barrel has the same finish at the Americans. 452 Americans have nicer wood and metal finishes (both on the barrel and the reciever) vs. other 452s such as the FS, Varmint, Lux, Ultra Lux, Scout, Farmer.

The barrels on the two Americans in my photos above are more polished (prior to bluing) than a .22 LR FS. The non-American guns have the matte receiver and typically a slightly less polished barrel (perhaps the brush finish you're talking about), as shown on the picture of my Left-handed Lux above. They look good, but not as highly polished prior to bluing.

Here's an American next to a 1970 vintage Browning. In person, the level of polish is about the same but the blue is a lighter blue on the old Browning. I love the look of the old classic "blue" bluing.



The 22 Magnum FS used the American receiver as well as the higher level of pre-bluing polish for the barrel. Here's a 22LR FS on top and a 22 WMR FS on the bottom. You can see the differences in the receivers and the barrels.


Here's a clearer view of the "brushed" barrel finish (the top gun in the photo immediately above).


Here's the 452 FS 22 WMR metal next to the same Browning from above.


All total, there are a few "levels" of metal finish on CZ rifles over the years, plus the different 452 models ranged from matte "sandblasted" looking receivers to polished receivers like I posted above, and slightly varying levels of brush-finished smoothness on the barrels up to polished barrels. From what I've seen, the older guns tended to have a more highly polished pre-blue finish, which can be seen for sure in the centerfires. Here's a 2005 model 550 that has a mirror-like finish (this is a cell phone photo, but you can see that there pretty much nothing but smooth on the surface.


Another cell phone photo, but here's a 2002 model that has pretty much the same finish as the 2005 above:


Here's the 2005 model (near side) next to a 2012 model. You can somewhat see the difference in surface texture, the 2005 being polished smooth to the naked eye.


I've seen others complain about the "backwards" safety on some of the CZ rifles but I don't really understand the complaint. I checked my guns a few years ago and at that time had 14 different types of safeties among them, and I've never had a problem with any of them. It's one thing to just not prefer a certain type of safety -- I can certainly understand that, and I've sold guns that had features that just didn't suit me -- but I've seen some people say they thought the CZ safeties made the gun unsafe for them to use. That's a bit scary, and tells me that I don't want that person around me with a loaded weapon, regardless of the type of safety.

 

[dak0ta]

Picked up a Brno Model 2 recently. What's the going price for them in the US? Wondering if I should scope it or use the sights.

 

[CraigC]

Who cares? I'm comparing the two rifles I own. My preference is for the matte finish of the 457, which is the same on all metalwork, over the flat finish of the 452's receiver, coupled with the brushed finish on the barrel. How other models are finished is irrelevant. Point being, there is nothing special about either one. The Ruger American has a higher polish and as a result, nicer looking bluing.

All safeties operate intuitively, relative to each other. The button on a 10/22 is pushed to fire with the right hand's trigger finger. It would be awkward if it was the other way, wouldn't it? Same concept here. The CZ 452's safety operates similar to a model 70 or Ruger 77, except counter-intuitively in the opposite direction. Instead of flicking it forward with your thumb, you pull it back. Hmmmm, I wonder why CZ corrected that with the 457?

Here's a thought, someone might like a CZ rimfire model as a trainer for their dangerous game rifle. Doesn't really work when the safeties operate in opposite directions. Ever think of that?



After fooling with it one last time, with two more sets of rings of differing heights, I've decided to give up on the 452. It's a beautiful rifle that is comfortable, shoulders & points great and is very accurate but the bolt interference is a deal-breaker. I'm not going to mount the scope so high that I can't get a good cheek weld. The safety is a minor annoyance. May even go tomorrow to trade it for something else.

 

[I6turbo]

Picked up a Brno Model 2 recently. What's the going price for them in the US? Wondering if I should scope it or use the sights.

Price depends upon the condition and wood quality, so probably in the $350 range in marginal condition, up to $800 or so in great condition with nice wood. Scoping it up to your preference of shooting with open sights, or with a scope.