CZ97 fail to feed issue? Help

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Hey everyone,

Just picked up a NIB CZ97. For those unfamiliar its a CZ in .45 with no decocker. Shoots great. Amazingly accurate.

The only issue I have is a standard problem with some .45s.

I am having an issue where the first round from the magazine fails to feed in the chamber. I have tried using a half-loaded magazine and still have this problem sometimes. It is hard to replicate the issue. Once I finally manage to load the weapon, every round fires flawlessly. It appears to only be happening when the first round is being chambered.

I have used the slide release and have just grabbed the slide and rocked it home. Both methods create the same problem.

It is my understanding that there is a lengthy break-in period for the gun. I shot 250 rounds today and its still occurring.

My feed-ramp is nice and shiny, very clean with no defects.. The magazines are brand new and probably require some breaking in as well.

Is this just a gun Im going to have to wear in for a few range trips? Or is there some other underlying issue at play?

I appreciate the feedback. be safe!

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The fact that it's the first round (after a break/stop) and that all following rounds feed properly is really unusual, and doesn't sound like a "break-in" related issue.

Does it happen with BOTH magazines?

You tell us that you've tried BOTH using the slide release and sling-shoting the slide, so you done a good job of checking a possible cause.
What you describe often occurs when the shooter's grip is high, and one of the thumbs is accidentally dragging on the slide. That doesn't seem to be the case, here -- as it wouldn't happen when slingshoting the slide.

Check the rails and make sure there's no junk or crud that might be slowing down the slide with the first shot. (And that suggestion is grasping at straws.)

If everything checks out, call CZ-USA and ask THEM for advice. (If it's hard to call during the day, send an email describing the problem to "[email protected]" -- that should put you in touch with Mike Eagleshield or another gunsmith, there.)

 

[1SOW]

I have used the slide release and have just grabbed the slide and rocked it home. Both methods create the same problem.

Does it always feed when you pull the slide 'all the way to the rear' and then release it/slingshot? It may need to loosen up some more, but should feed with the slingshot method.

Also, what specific ammo are you using?

And +1 to Walt's post above.

 

[rcmodel]

Slide rail friction from the upward pressure from the full mag is slowing it down.

Did you clean & oil it with a good high film strength lube before shooting it??
Use Rem-Oil, or even grease for a while at least.

rc

 

[wally]

What bullet shape is perhaps the most important question. Its not all that uncommon for the CZ97B to have some issues with JHP rounds.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Thanks guys. The weapon is cleaned and oiled and it is still have the issue. I spent two hours meticulously scraping every piece of gunk off of it and giving it a lot of TLC.

The issue occurs with both magazines. However, I have read that new CZ mags can be stiff and cause issues until they are worn.

The ammunition varied. I had winchester 230gr FMJ, Winchester Ranger 230+P and Federal HP 230gr. The issue occurs with all types of ammunition.

The weapon has no malfunctions if I only load a few rounds in the magazine. 2 or 3 just as a test. Which leads me to believe the issue has something to do with the magazine springs. But Im not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV. haha.

Thanks for you assistance though guys! We're closer to solving this.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

sounds like a break in issue that will disappear. i've had 1911's that did this.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Slide rail friction from the upward pressure from the full mag is slowing it down.

Prior to his last message (which added new info), I would have said that this would have explained it if the gun malfunctioned when starting from a full mag, but would not explain why it had problems when starting with a down-loaded mag (several fewer rounds...) But, in his last message, he says that if there are only a few rounds in the mag, it'll work. That does suggest very powerful mag springs and the upward pressure mentioned, above.

Given that, I'd recommend leaving the mags fully loaded for a week or two; then, the springs will likely degrade a little -- just enough that you'll see an improvement.

Leaving the mags fully loaded is not recommended for long-term storage for some types of magazines -- particularly ones like in the CZ-97 mags which have springs that are highly compressed when fully loaded. But, degrading the springs slightly makes more sense than having a gun that can't be relied upon.

(There are a number of messages about magazine and recoil spring life, here on the forum, with a lot of technical information included -- with solid explanations of what wears/weakens springs. Some of the folks responding are in the business, and one in particular is an engineer who has taken up spring life as a hobby. A search of "spring life," "magazine springs" or "stretching springs" will give you list of lengthy but informative discussions and technical references. You can also go to the Wolff Springs (www.gunsprings.com) site and check out their FAQ area.)


.

 

[schmeky]

It should clear up with a little time. Fully load the mags and let them sit for a couple weeks. The mag springs are at their strongest when new.

If you don't want to wait, order a mag spring for an SP-01 (9mm) and clip a coil (or so) from the bottom. The 97 mag can be modified for an earlier release of all else fails.

 

[chris in va]

I just got one too and noticed the same thing. First round is reluctant to feed.

Make sure the top round is angled with the feed lips. If it sits more horizontally, that uber steep feed ramp acts more like a wall.

Is this a brand new one or 'new to you'? If you still can't get it to feed right, CZ will fix it for free, just send it in. Common problem with the 97.

 

[wditto]

I want a CZ97 and I want it NOW !!!!!

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

I agree. I recommend this gun to anyone who wants 10+ rounds at about the same frame size as a 1911. very nice.

Now for some clarity in resolving the issue;

The mags are loaded and sitting in a drawer. I am contemplating purchasing either MECGAR magazines or the EAA witness 45 mags just to test.

I have noticed that the round is seated at an odd angle due to the mag being so hard to load. when only a few rounds are loaded, the rounds take the normal upward angle. So im sure this is just a mag issue.

However, I just need to be sure if Im going to trust my life to this as a carry piece. So hopefully this works out.

Thanks for all the info guys. Keep it coming if anything hasnt been said already

 

[dfariswheel]

At one time, CZ was having problems with new guns failing to feed anything but 230 grain round nose bullets.
A trip back to CZ-USA cured the problem and they fed most everything.

Before fooling around with anything, I'd contact CZ and talk to them.
If they want it sent back and it's under warranty, request that they send you a shipping label so you don't have to pay shipping charges.

 

[Gordon]

I had problems with the CZ97 I had high hopes for. I sold it 4 years ago after fooling with it a couple years. It was only reliable with ball AFTER CZ "fixed" it. It was very big too, I wanted to like it, it was very accurate when it fired a string, but bye bye. I'll keep my P01 forever tho....

 

[chris in va]

I am contemplating purchasing either MECGAR magazines or the EAA witness 45 mags just to test.

I compared my factory CZ mags with the Witness mag I bought, and they are absolutely identical in every way except for the baseplate which is slightly thinner, which leaves about a 2mm gap at the bottom. No MecGar stamp on either but judging by my other 75's mags, I'd have to say they are definitely made by them.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I also had a Witness Sport Long Slide, an ASAI One PRO, and a CZ-97, all in .45, and all at the same time. The mags were identical.

I know that Mec-Gar DID makes Tanfoglio's mags at one time, but may not be doing it now, while Mec-Gar is the OEM supplier of CZ mags, now. (The Long Slide mags said Mec-Gar.)

Mec-Gar's mags for CZs (supplied with CZ) may be slightly different than their own after-market mags for the same guns in other calibers, but I have no reason believe there is any difference between their .45 mags and CZ's .45 mags.

To swap them out would likely be a waste of money.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

So to recap.

Magazines are loaded in an effort to weaken or wear in the springs.

Weapon is cleaned. Well.

Just gonna take it to the range and see what happens now.

Any suggestions on how many more rounds I should fire to break it in? Or how many to fire before I send it back?

Thanks

 

[beatledog7]

A longshot maybe, but have you tried sliding the final round in the mag (last one in) as fas forward as it will go before inserting it?

 

[mainmech48]

One thing which hasn't yet been mentioned has occured to me. IIRC, the stock recoil spring on a 97B is rated at approx. 13 lbs. Since the recoil springs for full-sized CZ 75B's are the same length and ID/OD, perhaps going to a slightly heavier one until you've put a couple of hundred more rds. through it might help.

In my very early model 97B (mfg. 1998, serial A15XX) the Wolff 14 lb. OEM-equivalent unit for the 75B/EAA Witness fits and functions perfectly. I've tried as high as 16 lb. with no functional issues using standard pressure ammo.

OTB, mine didn't want to feed much of anything but 230 gr. RN ball or a couple of brands of JHP's with a very similar profile. Since I'm a southpaw and needed/wanted to have an ambi thumb safety installed anyway (which wasn't available through CZ-USA at the time) I had Neil Keller at Kustom Ballistics do a "duty/reliability" tune when he installed the EAA-made ambi safety for me. Hasn't bobbled since, even with my rather mild 200 gr. LSWC practice/plinking reloads.