D.C. Court of Appeals denies en banc hearing in Parker

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If this does go on to the Supreme Court, does anyone have an idea of how long we're looking at before a ruling? The House bill to restore gun rights to DC (which would probably stop this court case dead in its tracks) has a little over 100 sponsors and the Senate version has just shy of 50.

Barring the Supreme Court overturning the DC Court's ruling, this is only positive. At least we have another Circuit that believes in individual rights.
 
Romma,

You are right, such as in this article.

Standard Model

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

Gun Nuts Like Lawrence Tribe

Jacob Sullum | May 7, 2007, 12:00pm

Startled by the recent federal appeals court decision overturning D.C.'s gun ban, The New York Times suddenly notices the impact of scholarship favoring the position that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to arms. It notes that the work of left-liberal legal scholars inclined to favor gun control, beginning with University of Texas law professor Sanford Levinson's 1989 Yale Law Journal article "The Embarrassing Second Amendment," has been especially influential. Why, after all, would leading scholars such as Lawrence Tribe reverse themselves and endorse a view of the Constitution at odds with their policy preferences unless the evidence supporting that view was too strong to ignore? Just to be contrary, according to the nicely named Carl T. Bogus, a law professor at Roger Williams University who favors an interpretation of the Second Amendment that renders it null and void. "Contrarian positions get play," he says. "Liberal professors supporting gun control draw yawns."

The Times reports that these contrarians have "in a remarkably short time upended the conventional understanding of the Second Amendment"—so much so that (as the Times fails to note) the individual-right interpretation is now known as "the standard model." Yet the Times leaves unquestioned this claim by Dennis Henigan of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence: "The overwhelming weight of scholarly opinion supports the near-unanimous view of the federal courts that the constitutional right to be armed is linked to an organized militia. The exceptions attract attention precisely because they are so rare and unexpected." It's not clear how Henigan is weighing scholarly opinion, but the pro-gun-rights scholar Don Kates reports that "over 120 law review articles have addressed the Second Amendment since 1980," and "the overwhelming majority affirm that it guarantees a right of individual gun owners." Furthermore, as the Times also neglects to mention, this was the standard view until 20th-century gun controllers started pushing the claim that the Second Amendment has nothing to do with individual rights.

Mike McMenamin reviewed Bogus' defense of plaintiff's attorneys for Reason a few years ago. Did Bogus really believe what he wrote in that book, or was he just trying to be provocative?
 
or this one.

NY Times

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

A Liberal Case for Gun Rights Sways Judiciary
By ADAM LIPTAK

Correction Appended

In March, for the first time in the nation’s history, a federal appeals court struck down a gun control law on Second Amendment grounds. Only a few decades ago, the decision would have been unimaginable.

There used to be an almost complete scholarly and judicial consensus that the Second Amendment protects only a collective right of the states to maintain militias. That consensus no longer exists — thanks largely to the work over the last 20 years of several leading liberal law professors, who have come to embrace the view that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own guns.

In those two decades, breakneck speed by the standards of constitutional law, they have helped to reshape the debate over gun rights in the United States. Their work culminated in the March decision, Parker v. District of Columbia, and it will doubtless play a major role should the case reach the United States Supreme Court.

Laurence H. Tribe, a law professor at Harvard, said he had come to believe that the Second Amendment protected an individual right.

“My conclusion came as something of a surprise to me, and an unwelcome surprise,” Professor Tribe said. “I have always supported as a matter of policy very comprehensive gun control.”

The first two editions of Professor Tribe’s influential treatise on constitutional law, in 1978 and 1988, endorsed the collective rights view. The latest, published in 2000, sets out his current interpretation.

Several other leading liberal constitutional scholars, notably Akhil Reed Amar at Yale and Sanford Levinson at the University of Texas, are in broad agreement favoring an individual rights interpretation. Their work has in a remarkably short time upended the conventional understanding of the Second Amendment, and it set the stage for the Parker decision.

The earlier consensus, the law professors said in interviews, reflected received wisdom and political preferences rather than a serious consideration of the amendment’s text, history and place in the structure of the Constitution. “The standard liberal position,” Professor Levinson said, “is that the Second Amendment is basically just read out of the Constitution.”

The Second Amendment says, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” (Some transcriptions of the amendment omit the last comma.)

If only as a matter of consistency, Professor Levinson continued, liberals who favor expansive interpretations of other amendments in the Bill of Rights, like those protecting free speech and the rights of criminal defendants, should also embrace a broad reading of the Second Amendment. And just as the First Amendment’s protection of the right to free speech is not absolute, the professors say, the Second Amendment’s protection of the right to keep and bear arms may be limited by the government, though only for good reason.

The individual rights view is far from universally accepted. “The overwhelming weight of scholarly opinion supports the near-unanimous view of the federal courts that the constitutional right to be armed is linked to an organized militia,” said Dennis A. Henigan, director of the legal action project of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “The exceptions attract attention precisely because they are so rare and unexpected.”

Scholars who agree with gun opponents and support the collective rights view say the professors on the other side may have been motivated more by a desire to be provocative than by simple intellectual honesty.

“Contrarian positions get play,” Carl T. Bogus, a law professor at Roger Williams University, wrote in a 2000 study of Second Amendment scholarship. “Liberal professors supporting gun control draw yawns.”

If the full United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit does not step in and reverse the 2-to-1 panel decision striking down a law that forbids residents to keep handguns in their homes, the question of the meaning of the Second Amendment is almost certainly headed to the Supreme Court. The answer there is far from certain.

That too is a change. In 1992, Warren E. Burger, a former chief justice of the United States appointed by President Richard M. Nixon, expressed the prevailing view.

“The Second Amendment doesn’t guarantee the right to have firearms at all,” Mr. Burger said in a speech. In a 1991 interview, Mr. Burger called the individual rights view “one of the greatest pieces of fraud — I repeat the word ‘fraud’ — on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

Even as he spoke, though, the ground was shifting underneath him. In 1989, in what most authorities say was the beginning of the modern era of mainstream Second Amendment scholarship, Professor Levinson published an article in The Yale Law Journal called “The Embarrassing Second Amendment.”

“The Levinson piece was very much a turning point,” said Mr. Henigan of the Brady Center. “He was a well-respected scholar, and he was associated with a liberal point of view politically.”

In an interview, Professor Levinson described himself as “an A.C.L.U.-type who has not ever even thought of owning a gun.”

Robert A. Levy, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a libertarian group that supports gun rights, and a lawyer for the plaintiffs in the Parker case, said four factors accounted for the success of the suit. The first, Mr. Levy said, was “the shift in scholarship toward an individual rights view, particularly from liberals.”

He also cited empirical research questioning whether gun control laws cut down on crime; a 2001 decision from the federal appeals court in New Orleans that embraced the individual rights view even as it allowed a gun prosecution to go forward; and the Bush administration’s reversal of a longstanding Justice Department position under administrations of both political parties favoring the collective rights view.

Filing suit in the District of Columbia was a conscious decision, too, Mr. Levy said. The gun law there is one of the most restrictive in the nation, and questions about the applicability of the Second Amendment to state laws were avoided because the district is governed by federal law.

“We wanted to proceed very much like the N.A.A.C.P.,” Mr. Levy said, referring to that group’s methodical litigation strategy intended to do away with segregated schools.

Professor Bogus, a supporter of the collective rights view, said the Parker decision represented a milestone in that strategy. “This is the story of an enormously successful and dogged campaign to change the conventional view of the right to bear arms,” he said.

The text of the amendment is not a model of clarity, and arguments over its meaning tend to be concerned with whether the first part of the sentence limits the second. The history of its drafting and contemporary meaning provide support for both sides as well.

The Supreme Court has not decided a Second Amendment case since 1939. That ruling was, as Judge Stephen Reinhardt, a liberal judge on the federal appeals court in San Francisco acknowledged in 2002, “somewhat cryptic,” again allowing both sides to argue that Supreme Court precedent aided their interpretation of the amendment.

Still, nine federal appeals courts around the nation have adopted the collective rights view, opposing the notion that the amendment protects individual gun rights. The only exceptions are the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans, and the District of Columbia Circuit. The Second Circuit, in New York, has not addressed the question.

Linda Singer, the District of Columbia’s attorney general, said the debate over the meaning of the amendment was not only an academic one.

“It’s truly a life-or-death question for us,” she said. “It’s not theoretical. We all remember very well when D.C. had the highest murder rate in the country, and we won’t go back there.”

The decision in Parker has been stayed while the full appeals court decides whether to rehear the case.

Should the case reach the Supreme Court, Professor Tribe said, “there’s a really quite decent chance that it will be affirmed.”
 
On the NYTIMES peice...

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/05/don_kates_on_th.php

"The pervasive inaccuracy of the N.Y. TIMES on gun issues is epitomized
by the fact that the article that follows is probably the most honest
treatment it has ever given a gun issue – and yet is still fundamentally
misleading.

From the article the ordinary reader would come away with the following
impression: 1) from its enactment in 1791 to roughly 1980 everyone
viewed the 2nd Am. as a states right (or a meaningless "collective
right"); 2) since c. 1980 a few ivory tower intellectuals have theorized
that the 2nd Am. might be a right of individual gun owners; 3)
nonetheless the great majority of authorities say that is wrong.

The truth is almost diametrically opposite: (...)

Click the link above to read the rest.
 
From the article the ordinary reader would come away with the following
impression: 1) from its enactment in 1791 to roughly 1980 everyone
viewed the 2nd Am. as a states right (or a meaningless "collective
right"); 2) since c. 1980 a few ivory tower intellectuals have theorized
that the 2nd Am. might be a right of individual gun owners; 3)
nonetheless the great majority of authorities say that is wrong.

So false. The earliest I can recall the 'collective right' was during FDR's presidency.
 
Any honest predictions by any legal experts here? I feel OK about it, but Kennnedy would be the key vote I suspect.
 
Here is a good source for those who like to verify everything: Washington Post Story

The article:

Appeals Court Refuses to Reconsider D.C. Gun Ban

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 8, 2007; 4:18 PM

A federal appeals court in Washington today refused to reconsider a ruling that struck down a restrictive D.C. ban on gun ownership, setting the stage for a potentially constitutional battle over the Second Amendment in the Supreme Court.

D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty scheduled a press conference at 4 p.m. to share his reaction to the court decision. Fenty has vowed that the city would fight to defend the D.C. law because the restriction on owning handguns in the city was critical to stemming gun-related violence and crime.

If the city petitions for a hearing before the Supreme Court as expected, some legal experts predict the high court would likely agree to take the case. A central issue posed by the case, originally brought by D.C. residents and a libertarian organization fighting the law, is whether the Second Amendment protects the rights of individuals to bear arms.

By a vote of 2-1, a panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled on March 9 that it does. Other federal courts have interpreted the amendment as protecting a militia's right to take up arms, not an individual's. If the Supreme Court considers that a substantial enough legal conflict it may take up the case to resolve the issue.

Paul Helmke, of the pro-gun control Brady Center, said today he thinks the Supreme Court will want to settle the matter, and the appeals court's decision today not to take the case with the full panel of judges speeds up the process in a "politically interesting" way.

"We've expected all along this would go the Supreme Court," Helmke said. "The crucial thing is it gets it there quicker. If the court takes the case, there's a chance there'll be a ruling before the presidential election."


Those voting against a new hearing on the case before the full court were the two panel members who voted for the original ruling, and three others.

Those voting to reconsider were three liberal or moderate judges, Merrick Garland, Judith Rogers and David Tatel and a conservative, A. Raymond Randolph. Interestingly, the judge on the panel who dissented from the original ruling, Karen LeCraft Henderson, voted against reconsideration
 
Ratzinger-p38 said:
So false. The earliest I can recall the 'collective right' was during FDR's presidency.

I assume you're referring to Miller-- but the "collective rights" bull doesn't come directly from Miller, it comes from circuit courts (deliberately) misreading Miller, starting in the '60s, IIRC. If you actually read Miller you'll see what I mean.
 
Wickwire- The liberal shift towards intelligence is why I believe Steven's may support the individual right arguement (Save your flames I already know how most of you feel).

But this is most worrisome:
"We've expected all along this would go the Supreme Court," Helmke said. "The crucial thing is it gets it there quicker. If the court takes the case, there's a chance there'll be a ruling before the presidential election."

Either way close your eyes and hold on tight it will be a heck of a ride.
 
I assume you're referring to Miller-- but the "collective rights" bull doesn't come directly from Miller, it comes from circuit courts (deliberately) misreading Miller, starting in the '60s, IIRC. If you actually read Miller you'll see what I mean.

No I am referring to what FDR's attorneys were arguing. I believe FDR himself made similar comments during the NFA act days.
 
Would you happen to have a citation for these arguments? I'd like to read them.
 
It won't apply just to DC and Chicago if the Supreme Court upholds the circuit court's decision. It'll probably be applied to the 86 machine gun ban (and, maybe the whole NFA). Even if they refuse to make it apply to states and only the feds (as DC is a federal city technically), it will apply to federal laws.

This is all assuming the justices don't try to screw us if they hear the case. But it's our best chance in a long time to get this. It can't be allowed to wait till another election, or another leftist justice could get added. As the recent vote showed, the liberal justices wanted to rehear the case (showing, they likely would have opposed the original ruling, since if they agreed with it they wouldn't have a need to rehear it).
 
This is all assuming the justices don't try to screw us if they hear the case. But it's our best chance in a long time to get this.

Do you feel that confident? I know some of you guys accused the NRA of sabotaging this but I understand their reasoning - a loss for us in SCOTUS would be disastrous.
 
It won't apply just to DC and Chicago if the Supreme Court upholds the circuit court's decision. It'll probably be applied to the 86 machine gun ban (and, maybe the whole NFA). Even if they refuse to make it apply to states and only the feds (as DC is a federal city technically), it will apply to federal laws.

I agree. I see little difference between the DC ban and the '86 full auto ban - neither is technically a ban, but if a gun wasn't part of the registered database before the date, you can't own it now. One minor point of difference is that a person in most states can buy a pre-'86 gun (albeit at an enormously inflated price due to the artificially restricted supply), whereas no one in DC can buy a pre-'76 handgun. On such minor points many decisions have turned, but I'd make the argument that the very high prices on pre-'86 guns is so high a barrier to entry that it is effectively a ban, plus there can be no civilian sales of any full auto of any model (even those which didn't exist in '86), despite the fact that the population is increasing. The realistic chance for anyone to own a full auto is small and declining with each passing year.
 
"It is now up to the district to accept the ruling and begin the process of licensing handguns to be kept legally in district residences, or to appeal the case to the Supreme Court."
I have a lot of respect for the Second Amendment Foundation, but that statement from Mr. Gottlieb id disappointing.
 
It won't apply just to DC and Chicago if the Supreme Court upholds the circuit court's decision. It'll probably be applied to the 86 machine gun ban (and, maybe the whole NFA). Even if they refuse to make it apply to states and only the feds (as DC is a federal city technically), it will apply to federal laws.

Dont count on the NFA going away. The Parker decision (citing Miller) said that regulation is allowed.
 
Do you feel that confident? I know some of you guys accused the NRA of sabotaging this but I understand their reasoning - a loss for us in SCOTUS would be disastrous.

While I'm obviously hoping for a win, assuming that Cert. is granted and the case is heard, I'm not certain that I agree. You see, the conventional wisdom among courts and legislative bodies for several decades has been that it is OK to ban guns, as there's no individual right to own them. And yet, how many bans have we seen? Yeah, a couple of cities here and there, some state and a federal ban on so-called "assault weapons" or "assault rifles," but nothing else - because it has been politically a HUGE loser to even think about gun bans, let alone for a party to push for it.

If the SCOTUS overrules Parker, how would we be worse off? We might - MIGHT - even be better off, because then we wouldn't have the illusion that the 2nd will protect us (though, of course, I believe that it does), and we'd have to REALLY play for keeps.

As I said, I'd rather win this case, and then have a suit a few months later on the constitutionality of Section 922(o). We'll see.
 
As I said, I'd rather win this case, and then have a suit a few months later on the constitutionality of Section 922(o). We'll see.

I agree. I can live with regulations (I am not an absolutist who wants felons to be able to buy arms) but the 922(o) is a ban.
 
The Parker decision (citing Miller) said that regulation is allowed.

It said that "reasonable" regulation was allowed. Miller said,

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.

Utilizing that reasoning, coupled with a hypothetical Parker win, I'd say that anyone who could provide "judicial notice" that an M-4 had "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" would win, and get 922(o) tossed out on its petard.
 
I've tried to read every gun decision I can find and I even summed up what I did find on the various Justices in a post here in L&P. My feeling is that it will come down to Kennedy or Souter casting the deciding vote.

The fact that it will arrive right in the middle of a Presidential election will be a big bonus. This will be a nice political hot potato - candidates will have to sound off on the individual v. collective rights issue. With some of the key battleground states being Virginia, Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, it will be near political suicide to support a collective rights view of the Second Amendment, so the Court is quote likely to hear both major parties speaking out in support of an individual rights view in addition to all the scholarly evidence amassed.
 
Dont count on the NFA going away. The Parker decision (citing Miller) said that regulation is allowed.

Some minor regulation (such as background checks) and simple registration (if with the purpose of keeping of how well armed the populace is for purposes of defense against invasion) would under the ruling be allowed as I read it, but not the type of regulation the NFA uses (a high tax, pile of paperwork, fingerprints, CLEO approval, extensive FBI check, long wait, and of course as it stands now, the 86 ban on MG's). So, if a half decent ruling is made, the NFA (or at least some parts of it) will be a prime target for attack.

As for how confident I am? I'm not sure, it could go either way, but we've got the best chance in a long time, the most conservative justices in a while too. Granted, they may go against us, but they're not as likely to go against us as the radical leftists. Plus, even if they hate it, they may make the correct ruling anyways in accordance with the Constitution, to avoid the problems making a bad ruling will bring (like someone else said, a bad ruling here means the republic is truly dead and the system broken beyond repair, I'm sure they realize how dangerous an anti-second ammendment ruling may be, I'm sure they saw the risks in ticking off the population after the Kelo ruling on eminent domain).
 
I frankly don't give the Dem Leadership that much credit.

Personally I believe that they will attempt to sweep the issue under the rug and make every effort to avoid saying ANYTHING about it like they have been for several years.

Once SCOTUS makes a decision..likely mid/end summer 2008 they will immediately jump on the bandwagon and scream that that has been their position all along.

Only the Republicans and Libertarians are going to make any issue of it for a long time and you can count on MSM being complicit and dumping every newsworthy bit that comes along on 2A regarding individual candidates. We'll continue to see stuff from news outlets like what was recently seen in NYT but it will continue to be abstracts.
 
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