Dangerous Shotgun?

[ExTank]

In this thread, several posters comment to the effect that the Mossberg "chainsaw" is a dangerous configuration or could be dangerous in use.

Looking at it, I can see the the forward-swept handgrip could be awkward (it looks awkward to me), and that a back-swept grip might be better, ergonomically speaking.

But since I am not a "shotgun guy" or any kind of CQB tactical expert (my weapon-of-choice for CQB/urban renewal is an M1 Abrams ), can someone who is more savvy in these areas explain to me why this configuration is or could be dangerous?

The only thing I can think that might be consided dangerous is that the configuration appears optimized (if such a term can actually be applied to this) for "hip-shooting," and not aimed fire. But I'll defer to more knowledgeable minds on this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

My thought was that it would be best for door breaching kind of like in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waRpvJzBEg4
notice though that he then switches to the vertical grip after breeching to take out the other targets.

 

[USAF_Vet]

The only issue I have with the FPS Russia video above is he advocates bird shot for home defense.

Anyway, the 'chainsaw' does have the specific, limited purpose, namely door breaching. A standard shotgun does the same job as well as any special purpose job. A standard gun will do a lot of things well that a special purpose breacher gun won't do well.

Like all tools, use the right one for the job and it won't be dangerous. I don't see too many civilian jobs that would require this tool.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Is there any particular reason this thread is in ST&T and not Shotguns?
ETA - I see it was moved here from there. I'm still curious as to why...

I've seen a certain number of shotguns in the hands of trained breachers over the years, and none of them have had a chainsaw safety brake handle attached to them. But it's been a few years since I was running around with kickers and shooters, and the new generation may have changed their hardware (but I doubt it).

I can't say it's outright dangerous, I've handled one at the LGS but never fired it. Gimmicky and impractical, I'd agree, but dangerous, other than possibly encouraging unconventional and therefore potentially unsafe gunhandling, I wouldn't go that far.

 

[ExTank]

I originally intended to post it here, but got my browser tabs mixed up and put it in Shotguns. I added a note, a Mod moved it, and here we are.

The reason I intended to put it here was that the gist of several comments in the orginal thread was that it would be dangerous to use. That it would encourage "bad habits."

I thought that maybe that would fall up under "Strategies, Tactics, and Training," dealing with the actual implementation of the gun inquestion.

 

[Sam1911]

One I can think of is that most guys using chainsaws tend to carry them "at ease" by the top handle. Slipping into that habit with one of these would end up with the muzzle immediately elevated toward your head as they're not balanced to be neutral at that point.

Another point is that instead of having a firm grip on the gun very close to the line of recoil, you're managing recoil entirely through a one-handed pistol grip (which is bad enough in a gun not proportioned for such use, like a 26-30" shotgun) and through a top-handle raised above the bore and turned 90 deg. to the line of force. That doesn't mean you couldn't fire it safely, but that it is not as controlled and stable as it should be.

In other words, as long as you're "RIGHT" with it, it won't be unsafe. But its design encourages you to be "WRONG" with it if you let down your guard for even a moment. And wrong is dangerous when very lethal weapons are concerned.

...

Another point is that there is a sort-of ok way to shoot a PGO shotgun. It isn't GOOD, but it is the best it can be under the circumstances. You place the firing hand against the side of your pectoral muscle, extend your support/pump hand forward and use your body index to point the gun where you look -- very much akin to "firing from retention" with a handgun. This doesn't tend to get you the good results you'd get with a stocked gun, but is the very best you can do with the stockless models.

The top-grip "chainsaw" deal makes even this bad compromise impossible. It really does require that you're shooting about as badly as you could with a shotgun. It CAN'T be shot well. It's ONLY designed to be shot in the most grossly inaccurate fashion -- really nothing more than a potentially lethal noisemaker. Not a good addition to the world of firearms. What would we say about a handgun or rifle that was somehow DESIGNED to fire in random directions, only generally downrange? We'd be appalled. This is almost substantively identical.

 

[ugaarguy]

The chainsaw grip causes several problems.

First, when you use the grip your support hand blocks your line of sight. You really can't point the shotgun with any degree of accuracy because you're looking into the back of your support hand and forearm.

Second, since the grip is round and perpendicular to the bore it makes the shotgun swing up and down like a pendulum. It greatly hinders the user's ability to control the shotgun on the vertical axis.

Third, the overhand grip itself causes a couple more more problems. The overhand grip, even without acting like a pendulum, is far less stable than a conventional grip, so it's going to make managing recoil far more difficult. The overhand grip is also awkward, poorly supported, and requires substantial support side shoulder strength to attempt to aim. This is going to lead to shooter fatigue far faster than a conventional underhand grip. Shooter fatigue will contribute to poor muzzle control, and that's dangerous.

 

[Speedo66]

Another answer to a question nobody asked.

No doubt many tactical types will have to have one.

It's funny, wars were fought and won with simple weapons. Now, if a gun doesn't have 10 pieces of "stuff" hanging off of it, some think it just won't work.

 

[PJSprog]

Agreed, Speedo66. I recently removed the front and back pistol grips from my Mossberg 500 Security, which I'd had on there for over 20 years. It's a much better firearm now with the original wood back on it ... in my opinion, anyway.

I have no desire to shoot one of those "chainsaws." Dual pistol grips were uncomfortable enough. I can't imagine ...