DAO niche.

[ed dixon]

When I was searching some old threads on actions, I came across a poll that asked for a preference. Only about four percent of the folks answering said their primary or favored autoloader was a DAO. The number of respondents wasn't large and it may not be representative at all, but it made me wonder why anyone would favor DAO if so few seem to. I understand that every trigger pull is going to be relatively heavy and in that lies some extra saftey, but why might an experienced shooter still like this set up?

I'm pretty new to autoloaders and haven't borrowed or rented any, but now own an MK II and a Mil-Spec. Want to get some more dope on the world of 9mm here.

Thanks. Ed

 

[Quintin Likely]

Well, there's a uniform trigger pull. Every shot, same thing. There's no "hair trigger" as there would be with a DA/SA (after the first shot) or SA design. And lots of folks are used to double action trigger pulls found on revolvers, why not use the same thing on auto?

My .02

Q

 

[mete]

For combat and the stresses you face a light ,SA, trigger has problems for the less than expert ( most cops are poorly trained). But the difference between the first heavy (10 -15 Lbs ) pull and the lighter subsequent pulls caused problems in the SA/DA guns. So they came out with the DAO guns. This is ok providing that the pull is not too high ( 9 lbs ). Remember that the smoothness is more important than lightness. I tested a Kahr 9mm with polymer frame recently , the pull seemed to be 8-9 lbs and fairly smooth. That's ok for it's intended use , close range defensive shooting. It also of course, eliminates the safety and complex operation.

 

[10-Ring]

I have learned to enjoy shooting DA wheelguns and having a DAO pistol is just nice to have & shoot...I guess it's a left brain/right brain thing

 

[Tamara]

Now that I've gotten the hang of DA revolver shooting, I don't mind DAO pistols as much. The fact that my Beretta 96D "Slickslide" has such a sweet DA pull helps. I still prefer a short 1911 SA trigger on a bottomfeeder, but use the Beretta as a dedicated "nightstand gun."

 

[pogo2]

Isn't Glock DAO?

I thought I read that Glocks are considered DAO. Every trigger pull is the same, at a standard level of 5.5 lbs. I guess I'm surprised that only 4% of the people in the poll cited mentioned a preference for DAO, given the large number of Glock shooters out there.

I have a couple of Glocks and think their trigger has certain advantages, once you get used to the "different" feel of the thing. I like having the same trigger pull for every shot. And it is light enough that it doesn't seem to impair accuracy.

 

[Coronach]

Glocks are not properly DAO, and not properly SA. They're kinda their own system. Semi-cocked striker-fired tupperware-action system. Or something.

Mike

 

[roscoe]

DAO is like a high-capacity revolver. No safety, no need to think about whether the hammer is back, etc., as long as one is in the chamber. Just 10 (or so) even, predictable pulls. I hear a lot about the Glock trigger being unsafe, but I think you would have to really do something extraordinary to accidently fire my KT P11.

That said, I prefer my SA/DA CZ75, but some people don't want to think about a lot when they draw.

 

[New_comer]

Glocks are not DAO, but a Three-Halves Action or THA


Hear ye! Hear ye!


You heard this here first at THR!


But actually, I'm plagiaizing this from somebody else...

 

[jercamp45]

Everyone has defferent 'needs'

I think the major players in the DAO field is Law Enforcement.
When the NYPD finally switched to autoloaders, a DAO system was specified. Why...ease of transition, legal defence were probably the major reasons.
I tried a few DAO's over the years and they are not bad, not great.... I definately prefer my 'cocked and locked' Colts...but the manual of arms is pretty much ingrained subconsciously.
I needed to get a DAO (or DA/SA w/ decocker for a security gig), after checking out the various .45 auto's available(they gave allowance to almost any caliber), I chose the ParaOrd LDA.
That is one smooth, sweet DAO trigger!
Same operations as my Colt, sam ammo, same mags, same holsters.
I carry it on duty every day and all my quals with it have been over 90%
Niche? The DAO has found a niche in my life(still carry the Colt off duty though!)
Jercamp45

 

[MikeJ]

My rationale for liking DAO guns is that in a lethal confrontation I would imagine that my adrenaline would be racing, my motor skills impaired and yes, I'd be just plain scared. I want the simplest manual of arms out there in this situation. The transition from DA to SA is not what concerns me nor is the idea of having to flick off a safety since guns with only a decocker eliminate this operation. I simply don't want to find myself holding a cocked weapon on someone. If I have to fire a gun I want it to return to the same state it was in prior to me firing it, with the hammer down. My Beretta 92D Centurion and Glock 23 afford me this ability. I can shoot either of these guns easily and proficiently. When it comes to relaxed recreational shooting I love my 1911's and DA/SA guns but not in a high stress situation. Best, Mike

 

[GSB]

MikeJ's answer is a very good one. I use DA/SA for home defense, but his points are well taken and I want to mull them over.

That DA/SA transition that some people complain about is really a nonissue if one exhibits good form and trigger control (I think the problem is on the reset usually, because they expect the trigger to move forward farther, their trigger finger comes off the trigger. This is just a matter of learning to keep the trigger back through recoil and releasing pressure until reset without removing the finger from the trigger face. After that, it's like falling off a log).

That other issue that I see in most non-serious handgunners is a complete lack of willingness to practice in DA. It's easier for them to shoot better SA, and they don't want to put in the additional effort to learn proper grip in trigger discipline to shoot DA consistently. And it IS harder for most people at first, and usually requires some dry-fire time. There is little you can do for those unwilling to practice. If someone doesn't want to learn something, he won't.

 

[Sean Smith]

My personal opinion? All the double-action autoloader variants are a stupid idea. They are what happens when you let issues other than quickly hitting the target with sutibly powerful cartridges as easily as possible become overriding design concerns.

 

[GSB]

My personal opinion? All the double-action autoloader variants are a stupid idea. They are what happens when you let issues other than quickly hitting the target with sutibly powerful cartridges as easily as possible become overriding design concerns.

So I assume then that your ideal sidearm is a compensated .38 Super 1911, no safety, with a 1.5 lb bullseye trigger? Because if you have a safety on your 1911, or a 3 lb trigger, you are letting issues other than quickly hitting the target intrude. It doesn't make them a stupid idea.

 

[Dorrin79]

not a fan of DAO here...

DAO cuts my accuracy down substantially, and makes for a much less pleasant shooting experience at the range (so, consequently, I don't practice as much with a DAO weapon)

I prefer a SA that I can keep condition 1 or a DA/SA that can be kept the same way (like the CZ75)

That said, I am considering a Kahr K9 for a carry piece, which is a striker-fired DAO, if I understand correctly. I figure any DAO I try from now on will be easier to shoot than my Kel-Tec P11 (proud possessor of the Worst Trigger Ever Anywhere [TM])

 

[Sean Smith]

So I assume then that your ideal sidearm is a compensated .38 Super 1911, no safety, with a 1.5 lb bullseye trigger? Because if you have a safety on your 1911, or a 3 lb trigger, you are letting issues other than quickly hitting the target intrude. It doesn't make them a stupid idea.

Nice use of the Straw Man argument. Too bad it is a logical fallacy.

Saying that advocating a trigger lighter than 12 pounds (say, 5) leads naturally to 1.5 pound triggers is to indulge in another logical fallacy: the slippery slope. 5 could be better than 12 without 1.5 being better than 5 or 12, and lightening your trigger to 5 doesn't naturally lead to lightening it to 1.5 later on.

 

[Blackhawk]

My 9mm DAO CCW self stuffer has a 6.5# custom short stroke trigger. Kind of like a Glock trigger wise, but it's a true DAO.

My .32 ACP CCW has a trigger block so it's not a true DAO, but its trigger pull is 5.5#. Box stock.

I like DAO for CCW because that's all I've ever carried whether it was a DA revolver or a pistol. K.I.S.S. is my overwhelming preference if I have to use a CCW. I might make an exception for a P7M8, but I don't have one of those.

 

[hd1.]

Another vote for simplicity in self-defense carry. DAO.

 

[bountyhunter]

I chose the ParaOrd LDA. That is one smooth, sweet DAO trigger!

It's not a DAO action. The trigger does not cock the gun, the slide does. The Para can not fire without first cycling the slide. The trigger take up just moves the hammer back to the firing position before the internal sear breaks. A DAO does not require the slide movement to cock the gun. Important if you hit a stiff primer that does not ignite. A true DAO will let you whack it again with a single pull of the trigger, the Para requires you manually rack the slide to make the gun ready to fire again.

However, I agree it's an excellent trigger for shooting straight without much learning curve. I like mine.

 

[bountyhunter]

My rationale for liking DAO guns is that in a lethal confrontation I would imagine that my adrenaline would be racing, my motor skills impaired and yes, I'd be just plain scared. I want the simplest manual of arms out there in this situation. The transition from DA to SA is not what concerns me nor is the idea of having to flick off a safety since guns with only a decocker eliminate this operation. I simply don't want to find myself holding a cocked weapon on someone. If I have to fire a gun I want it to return to the same state it was in prior to me firing it, with the hammer down. My Beretta 92D Centurion and Glock 23 afford me this ability. I can shoot either of these guns easily and proficiently. When it comes to relaxed recreational shooting I love my 1911's and DA/SA guns but not in a high stress situation. Best, Mike

Very astute. What can adrenaline do? Well, there are those women that lifted a 3000 pound car off their kid. Or, ask a cop about the 150 pound guy on PCP that took eight cops to knock him down. Adrenaline amps their muscles up so much they actually have tendodns ripping away from the bones from the strength generated. I suspect a 5# trigger pull charged with live-or-die adrenaline levels is probably going to feel like abot 0.5#.

 

[Avery Goodschott]

Sometimes I wish my revolvers had a "decocker" like my SIG's

 

[Blueduck]

Adrenaline amps their muscles up so much they actually have tendodns ripping away from the bones from the strength generated. I suspect a 5# trigger pull charged with live-or-die adrenaline levels is probably going to feel like abot 0.5#.

Might be, but at least from my training an adrenaline rush basically just positivly affects the large muscle groups at the expense of fine motor skills which I think 1.5#, 5# or even a 12# trigger pull would still fall under. If your fingers gonna be numb (blood rushes to torso) and shaking (physical effect of the dump) your gonna have an unavoidable bad trigger pull form wise, regardless of how much time you spend knocking the center of the bullseye out at 25 yards each weekend.

This brings up the question of which type of system is most forgiving of a operator induced bad trigger pull???