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DD's and AOW'S?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by AMerexican, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. AMerexican

    AMerexican Member

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    Ok so I'm pretty familiar with all the other NFA items, but it's come to my attenetion that I don't know much about DD's or AOW's. So can anyone clear up more precisely what they are an maybe list some common (or uncommon) examples? Thanks in Advance.
     
  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    My lazy copy/paste from a Wiki search:

     
  3. AMerexican

    AMerexican Member

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    How bout some examples from you guys? Pics maybe? I think I kinda get it.
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Explosive Destructive Device

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Large Bore Destructive Device:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Poison Gas Destructive Device:

    [​IMG]

    Sort of ... sarin gas molecule.
     
  7. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Look in the NFA picture thread(s) here on THR for plenty of examples of AOWs.
     
  8. Gord

    Gord Member

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    To simplify, a DD (as I understand it) is a rifled arm firing anything bigger than a .50-caliber bullet, an explosive device, or something to facilitate the launching of an explosive device (like a grenade launcher or bazooka).

    An AOW can be a lot of things, but commonly, you've got handguns with a vertical foregrip, pen guns, and "shotgun pistols" (e.g. the Serbu Super Shorty).
     
  9. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

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    ^ So poison gas is allowed as a DD? How is it registered, by the bottle? Liter? Mole? CC? Please don't tell me that each individual molecule is a DD!
     
  10. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    It's important to note:

    (2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes

    Making destructive device the only classification that airguns could potentially fall under. Also, "disguised firearm" type AOWs are defined as using any explosive, so BP guns aren't exempt from that one, but airguns are.
     
  11. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

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    Forget airguns, according to the NFA ad the ATF a 40mm compressed propane powered airsoft grenade launcher is a DD when used with rocket or nerf football rounds...

    Why do these asinine antique rules still exist?
     
  12. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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    Actually, the specific ruling on potato guns (or the one I heard, anyway) is that, when used to shoot non-weaponized projectiles, like t-shirts, potatoes, golf balls, etc., they're not destructive devices, but when used to shoot anything metal or significantly dangerous, they are.

    On the other hand, you can shoot lead or iron balls out of a BP cannon or mortar, and that's not a DD.

    ---------

    Oh, and I just noticed:

    If you re-read the definition, you may notice the (A), (B), (C), etc. things. It's mix and match. Like (A) is a bomb. That means explosive bombs, incendiary bombs, and poison gas bombs are all DDs. The registration is thus per "device," same as regular bombs. You don't have to register every molecule of TNT in those, either.

    Just some quantity of explosive or poison gas doesn't constitute a destructive device, as long as you're complying with all the other laws and regulations. And I'm fairly sure that the laws on poisonous gas storage say that the valve mechanism has to be something harder to vent out than just turning a knob. Rigging something up that does let you release the gas out into a room easily probably would constitute manufacturing a destructive device.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2010
  13. Action_Can_Do

    Action_Can_Do Member

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    Am I reading the last line of the definition of destructive device correctly? Does it actually mean that a rifle used for sporting purposes isn't considered a destructive device?
     
  14. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Rifles that the SecTreas thinks are sporting, not anyone else. Like rifled 12ga shotguns, which are ~.72 caliber.
     
  15. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    See parts in bold for answer

    From the ATF NFA Handbook (ATF Publication 5320.8 April 2008)
     
  16. hnl.flyboy

    hnl.flyboy Member

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    so a shotgun with a slugger barrel can't be used as a defense gun? (not asking if it would be particularly a bright idea to use, but if it can't be used)
     
  17. w_houle

    w_houle Member

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    Don't ask too loudly, as the SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper is a DD for merely being an ugly 12ga.
     
  18. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Is the Boys .55 cal anti-tank gun sporting? ;)
     
  19. Ian

    Ian Member

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    It's really an interesting question (assuming you expect ATF regs to have a rational basis) why the USAS-12 and Streetsweeper are DDs but the Saiga-12 (now with 12- and 20-round drums available) is not. It would not surprise me to see the ATF decide to relist the Saiga shotguns as DDs, though it would be very interesting to see the fallout from such a decision. It's not that uncommon for F-troop to change their minds on things - for example the Atkins Accelerator, Historic Arms belt-fed Mac-10 uppers, CZ-26 receiver sections, PSL receivers, etc.
     
  20. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    The key is "sporting purpose".

    The Saiga-12 is imported into the USA in a sporting purpose configuration (sporter style stock and 5 round magazine).
    The USAS-12 and Stryker Light-12 were not imported into the USA in a sporting configuration. Since, they had no "sporting purpose", they were ruled to be DD.

    A few years back, there was some FUD going around that BATFE may reclassify the Saiga-12 as a DD, due to people modifying them into non-sporting configurations (pistol grip/folding stock) and the introduction of 10 round magazines/20 round drums. But, currently, it does not seem to be an issue as long as people comply with the 922r parts requirements.
     
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