magazine tube for SBS or AOWS

[HRnightmare]

I am wanting my next NFA project to be either an AOW or SBS, unsure of which as of right now. Some of the prices of them are astronomical. So I am thinking of wither converting my 870 I currently own or buying a new shotgun (likely a 500 or 870) and converting it.

The problem is I cannot find anywhere where I can buy a shorter than factory tube. Depending on SBS or AOW It seems I will want to go with a 3+1to get to my desired length.

Anyone know where I could get one?

Thanks.

 

[dogtown tom]

HRnightmare I am wanting my next NFA project to be either an AOW or SBS, unsure of which as of right now. Some of the prices of them are astronomical. So I am thinking of wither converting my 870 I currently own or buying a new shotgun (likely a 500 or 870) and converting it.

No brainer..........SBS.
Here's why:
Tax- If it's an "NFA project", it sounds like you plan to file a Form 1 and make it yourself. This means the ATF tax is the same $200.

Flexibility- you can configure a SBS with a shoulder stock, cannot do that with an AOW without buying another stamp.
You can reconfigure an NFA SBS as a Title I shotgun merely by swapping to a sporting barrel, can't do that with an AOW.

Cost- all you need is a short barrel. Either buy one or cut the existing one.

The problem is I cannot find anywhere where I can buy a shorter than factory tube. Depending on SBS or AOW It seems I will want to go with a 3+1to get to my desired length.

Anyone know where I could get one?

What is your desired length?

 

[HRnightmare]

I'm not sure yet. Also depends on which way I go which I am leaning towards SBS. I definitely want 3+1 tube capacity.

I would like to <deleted> some before making a decision for sure.

 

[Aaron Baker]

I've posted about it before, but I did a 12" barrel on an NEF Pardner (870 clone). Going from memory, but I'm almost certain that the magazine tube is silver soldered into the receiver. That's a good reason not to find a bunch available on the market--it's not an easily removable part by the end user.

So what I did is to strip everything down to just the bare receiver and magazine tube. I cut the threaded end of the magazine tube off, then cut out the section I needed to reduce the length by the amount desired, and then welded the threaded section back on. Some work with a Dremel sanding drum smoothed out the inside of the tube, as well as the outside. Then I cold-blued it. When I shortened the barrel, I had to cut off the lug that joins the barrel to the magazine tube, so when I welded it back on to the barrel, I made sure to do that so it would cover the welded section of the magazine tube when assembled.

With a 12" barrel and a magazine tube that is just barely shorter than the barrel, I get 4 2 3/4 shells in the tube. (I don't keep one chambered on that gun usually, but if I did, 4+1.)

You could easily do a 10" barrel if you're okay with 3 in the tube, but then you get into issues with shortening the forearm. With a 12" barrel, the barrel just barely peeks past the end of a standard-length foreend.

Aaron

Edit: I posted some pictures the last time this topic came up: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=778836
But I see that you said that you didn't want to mess with cutting the magazine tube. Honestly, unless you're going to have a gunsmith do the work, I don't know that there's any "pay for it" options for shorter magazine tubes. But I could be wrong...

 

[HRnightmare]

That is work I could probably do but don't want to find out after I pay $200 that I can't.

yours in the pictures uses the factory tube?

 

[MasterSergeantA]

I have a Rem 870 AOW with a 12" barrel and it holds 4 in the tube with the factory configuration.

 

[Aaron Baker]

Yep, factory tube, but shortened as I described. It was pretty easy. If you can cut, do basic flux-core welding and have a Dremel tool, it should be pretty doable.

Aaron

 

[HRnightmare]

Can you put a Pistol grip and remove the stock on a registered SBS like you can a regular shotgun?

 

[jmorris]

For the magazine tube just cut it down and TIG weld the tube back together after removing the section. I have done this to make longer tubes for guns they were not available for as well.

 

[yugorpk]

Can you put a Pistol grip and remove the stock on a registered SBS like you can a regular shotgun?

18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions

(6) The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.



The Butt stock is not required on an SBR. Its pretty worthless without one but its not a requirement. SBS's are all about OAL and barrel length. You can make an SBS with a short barrel and no butt stock . It will look like an AOW but you cannot make a AOW with a butt stock unless you form 1 the AOW into a SBS.

 

[Drail]

You guys REALLY need to be asking the ATF these questions - not some forum

 

[jmorris]

304-616-4500 is the number to the NFA branch. The operator will direct you to a "specialist", if you have any questions.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The easiest to do is an 870 with the original tube and a 12.5" BBL. You can shorted tubes, figure out how the thread them. Unbraze and rebraze the attachment to the barrel (may have to thin it while preserving taper). refinish.

Or just do the 1.5 like I did.

As others have said SBS is the same stamp cost for building $200 and there is not much of a resale market on SBXs (SBR or SBS).

Mike

 

[Aaron Baker]

You guys REALLY need to be asking the ATF these questions - not some forum

This "some forum" has several attorneys who post regularly and are well-versed in the National Firearms Act and associated regulations, as well as numerous tax stamp collectors who have built, collectively, a significant number of short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, and suppressors.

Even on complicated questions, I have rarely seen incorrect answers given on this forum, and when they are, they are quickly corrected by more knowledgeable members. But this isn't even remotely a complicated question. (The first part, about how to cut down or get a factory short magazine tube isn't even a legal question, but a practical one, and the second question about whether you can put a pistol grip on a SBS is a very simple legal question dealing with straightforward readings of the law.)

On the other hand, the ATF is notorious for not always giving the right answer. I know that seems counterintuitive, but the ATF has a lot of field offices and agents that don't always know the finer points of the National Firearms Act. For instance, I had a client the other day who told me that an ATF agent told him that he didn't have to do any engraving on his SBR lower unless it was an 80% lower. That's clearly not correct, since a Form 1 lower has to be marked with trust name, city and state, regardless of whether it's a commercial lower or a 80% lower.

So maybe try not to be so negative.

Aaron

 

[Swing]

Well said, Aaron.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

You guys REALLY need to be asking the ATF these questions - not some forum

Really now? The ATF knows where to get parts???

Mike

 

[yugorpk]

Good answers from Gov't workers.. Yeah. They get it right sometimes. This stuff isnt rocket science. The NFA's been around a LONG time. Theres a lot of us long term stamp collectors out there who know the ropes pretty well.

 

[Theohazard]

You guys REALLY need to be asking the ATF these questions - not some forum

Like Aaron said, this isn't just "some forum"; many of us have dealt with this subject for years. I'm a manager at an 07/02 who has sold hundreds -- if not thousands -- of NFA items over the years. Part of my job is to understand the NFA and how the ATF interprets it. And I'm far from the most knowledgeable person on this forum.

I've seen a few wrong answers regarding the NFA (and I've even been wrong a few times myself), but the correct answer is always quickly provided by another member, and they often even provide a link to the relevant ATF ruling on the subject.

 

[strambo]

I'd do the 12.5" with factory tube since capacity is already a big shortcoming of the shotgun. It will still be very short, heck that is the length we used to mount under M4s for breaching.

I'm tempted to make my 870 a 14" with +1 extension but it isn't my primary HD gun and not worth dumping a bunch of $ into (and I'd be giving up a round). An optic, 14" barrel, AR style stock and cerakote finish would be pretty sweet though! (Self: "Stop, get out of thread and don't watch the Magpul Dynamics shotgun DVDs anymore you don't need an SBS...")

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I'd do the 12.5" with factory tube since capacity is already a big shortcoming of the shotgun. It will still be very short, heck that is the length we used to mount under M4s for breaching.

I'm tempted to make my 870 a 14" with +1 extension but it isn't my primary HD gun and not worth dumping a bunch of $ into (and I'd be giving up a round). An optic, 14" barrel, AR style stock and cerakote finish would be pretty sweet though! (Self: "Stop, get out of thread and don't watch the Magpul Dynamics shotgun DVDs anymore you don't need an SBS...")

Unlike the Mossberg or Ithica, you can ghost load the Remington one extra round on the carrier (the tip needs to be in the tube). You may have to cut a few spring coils or radius the front of the carrier slightly to make it work.

But you get one more round

Or just buy an even more compact Bullpup that hold 15 rounds with no stamp

Mike

 

[MasterSergeantA]

I am wanting my next NFA project to be either an AOW or SBS, unsure of which as of right now. Some of the prices of them are astronomical. So I am thinking of wither converting my 870 I currently own or buying a new shotgun (likely a 500 or 870) and converting it.

The problem is I cannot find anywhere where I can buy a shorter than factory tube. Depending on SBS or AOW It seems I will want to go with a 3+1to get to my desired length.

Anyone know where I could get one?

Thanks.

One additional question that you need to have answered is are both SBS and AOW allowed in your state of residence. Some states allow one, but not the other. Even federal law treats SBS and AOW just a bit differently. You can carry a AOW across state lines (so long as it is legal in BOTH states) without requesting permission from the ATF.

Working with the Mossberg might be more difficult than the 870 due to the way the magazine tube is configured. Having said that, Mossberg does offer a shorter magazine tube as a replacement part. But I already have a AOW that is a 12.5" barreled 870. Very handy, if brutal. I went the AOW route because I was buying (not building) it so the transfer was only $5. Although not as compact as a Serbu Super Shorty, it isn't real big and still fits into a shoulder rig under a barn coat.

 

[Capybara]

One of these MasterSergeantA? I like mine, they are fun to shoot, no modern SBS allowed in my state so this is the closest I can get.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Is that AFG on backward for a reason?

 

[MasterSergeantA]

One of these MasterSergeantA? I like mine, they are fun to shoot, no modern SBS allowed in my state so this is the closest I can get.

Yup. Pretty much the same. I run a Hogue forend and a Knoxx breacher grip on mine. I've got a bird's head grip floating around the safe for it as well, but the recoil reduction from the breacher is pretty amazing.