Decision: Police can search person suspected of carrying illegal firearm for ID

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This was an important Minnesota decision today.



The title is misleading as it would lend one to believe that it is about CCW, when in fact it is merely about a person who is suspected of carrying a gun illegally. Obviously a CCW carrier would not be carrying illegally.



http://www.twincities.com/ci_16258512



Appeals Court backs police in test of Minnesota's 'concealed-carry' law


Associated Press

Updated: 10/05/2010 11:32:16 AM CDT

The Minnesota Court of Appeals says police can search a person suspected of illegally carrying a gun for identification when the suspect refuses to identify himself.

Minnesota's "concealed-carry" law requires a permit to carry a handgun in public. In a ruling today, the Court of Appeals says that when a person is detained on "reasonable suspicion" of violating that law, police may conduct a "limited search" for ID if the suspect refuses to provide his name or identification.

The ruling affirmed the conviction of a felon who was caught trying to carry a gun into a Minneapolis nightclub. When he refused to give his name, an officer took his wallet to get his ID, ran a computer check and discovered his previous convictions and gang connections.
 
State or Federal Court???

Was the decision in the federal Court of Appeals or State Court?? It makes a difference.
 
Was the decision in the federal Court of Appeals or State Court?? It makes a difference.

Not really.

This has been the case for many, many years. In most states you must provide proof of ID if your are being detained for the investigation of any crime. If you refuse to verbally provide it, which is usually another crime you are under arrest and they will be searching you completely.
 
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It doesn't say and I haven't been able to find out.


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Uh, yes it does....

The Minnesota Court of Appeals says police can search a person suspected of illegally carrying a gun for identification when the suspect refuses to identify himself.

Google is your friend:
The Minnesota Court of Appeals, which began on November 1, 1983, provides the citizens of Minnesota with prompt and deliberate review of all final decisions of the trial courts, state agencies and local governments.
 
Precedential value

It makes a difference to the extent that a Federal District (8th) has a higher precendential value than does a State Court. If a Federal District (8th) Court of Appeals decision the next step is to appeal to the Supreme Court. If the decision is upheld through the Federal system it may be a blow to CCW. If State Court the next step would be for the defendant to appeal to the Minnesota Supreme Court. If upheld in State Courts the precendential value is only as it applies to Minnesota. It is only persuasive in other Courts.
 
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It makes a difference to the extent that a Federal District (8th) has a higher precendential value than does a State Court. If a Federal District (8th) Court of Appeals the next step is to appeal to the Supreme Court. If the decision is upheld through the Federal system it may be a blow to CCW. If State Court the next step would be for the defendant to appeal to the Minnesota Supreme Court. If upheld in State Courts the precendential value is only as it applies to Minnesota. It is only persuasive in other Courts.


Not really...
The idiot convicted felon, gang member went to a club that had metal detectors, let the bouncers hold onto his gun while in the club. They contacted off-duty LEO working security in the club. LEO took the gun and asked security to find the guy. When they brought him out, they asked his name, he refused...

Has nothing, really, to do with CCW.

The LEO had reasonable suspicion of a crime, they investigated, he refused to ID, he went to jail.
 
Perp was nabbed by security trying to enter a crowded nightclub with a no guns sign.
Security called the cops who asked for ID, which they are allowed to do.
Perp refused to answer and cops searched for perp's wallet and found out he was a felon.
Perp moved to suppress the search for his identity and Court said "Go to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200"

Moral of the story: If you are going to put yourself in a position where a Minnesota Cop is going to see your gun, make sure you have your permit with you.

Decision of Minnesota Court of Appeals here

http://www.mncourts.gov/opinions/coa/current/opa091865-1005.pdf

Here is the key language:

Here, appellant was a person found under suspicious circumstances; that is, attempting to enter a crowded public nightclub with a cocked, loaded handgun concealed under his clothing contrary to signage prohibiting guns on the premises. Further,nightclub security called police to the scene specifically because of appellant‘s activity and turned him over to the officers‘ custody. The information that appellant was in possession of the loaded handgun gave the police officers a basis to suspect criminal activity and make a lawful demand for identification under Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 1b (2008). See Timberlake, 744 N.W.2d at 394-95. Once the officers made a lawful demand for identification, the burden shifted to appellant to produce the necessary information. When appellant refused the officers‘ request to produce identification, the officers were faced with two options: (1) release appellant without further investigation or (2) conduct a limited identification search of appellant. Because appellant was in violation of the statute, and the violation triggered public safety concerns, the only reasonable option presented to the officers under the narrow circumstances presented here was to conduct a limited search of appellant for identification.
 
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People are being told not to show identification when asked by Police. Even on this site also on USACARRY site. That's going to happen in a lot of States. I've been reading this stuff all day.
 
According to the case, Cop can ask a permit holder to show the permit and permit holder must comply:

Minnesota law also requires a permit holder to have the permit and a government-issued identification ―at all times when carrying a pistol and must display the permit card and identification document upon lawful demand by a peace officer.‖ Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 1b (2008) (emphasis added).

My recommendation: If you are lucky enough to live in a free state that allows carry permits-follow the rules.
 
According to the case, Cop can ask a permit holder to show the permit and permit holder must comply:



My recommendation: If you are lucky enough to live in a free state that allows carry permits-follow the rules.
Same in Florida, but it's only an administrative fine of $25.

They cannot just walk up to John Doe on the street and say "Show me you license/permit."
 
In FL, if the cops see you with a gun can they ask to see the permit?

If I remember, FL wants carry licensees to carry concealed.

P.S. Do police officers consider it disrepectful when civilians call them "cops"? I certainly mean no disrespect.
 
I think that OC in some States dosen't require a CWP but CC does, so their saying that the Police can't stop you for carrying OC and you don't have to show identification if one does.
 
In FL, if the cops see you with a gun can they ask to see the permit?

If I remember, FL wants carry licensees to carry concealed.

P.S. Do police officers consider it disrepectful when civilians call them "cops"? I certainly mean no disrespect.

For the most part, no open carry in Florida, except at home/work, hunting/fishing/camping and a few others; and concealed carry requires a license (except for those same open carry locations).

Can a LEO ask to see your license, yep. You're not concealing very well if he sees it.
 
the way I understand it, if you are detained by the police for a "reasonably articulated reason" they can require you to identify yourself. Carrying or not.

I am not a lawyer, I do not even play one on tv, I have never stayed in a Holiday Inn Express
 
I will gladly show any Police Officer my ID, CWP whatever. I have no problem with it. The more people he checks the safer it is for me and my family.
 
I will gladly show any Police Officer my ID, CWP whatever. I have no problem with it. The more people he checks the safer it is for me and my family.

*facepalm*
 
The more people he checks the safer it is for me and my family.

Not really, unless they frisk everyone coming through the door. The old saying, "Concealed means concealed," applies.

The idiot convicted felon, gang member went to a club that had metal detectors, let the bouncers hold onto his gun while in the club. They contacted off-duty LEO working security in the club. LEO took the gun and asked security to find the guy.

In this case the subject was unusually stupid. I wouldn't bet that would often be the case.
 
oldbanjo said:
I will gladly show any Police Officer my ID, CWP whatever. I have no problem with it. The more people he checks the safer it is for me and my family.

Even if it means violating the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution?!? Why is the 2nd Amendment more important than the 4th Amendment?
 
4th Amendment

It doesn't violate his 4th amendment if he consents. Lighten up. We are or should be on the same side.
 
Yes, I have no problem showing my ID to the Police, they have a hard enough time without me creating more problems for them.
 
they have a hard enough time without me creating more problems for them

if my Constitutional Rights are a problem for them...so be it

I always find it amazing that people are so willing to give up their rights so willingly
 
Showing ID willingly is not giving up a right. If you willingly do it, its not an illegal search or seizure.
 
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