Vegaslaith
Member
I have neither rifle and want a suppressed one. So if you could afford only one --suppressed .223( AR) or .308 (HK91) which would it be and why?
Decisions: suppressed .223 or .308?
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MTMilitiaman
Member
7.62x51 NATO
Though I would opt for a gas operated rifle like the FAL, with an adjustable gas system.
Though I would opt for a gas operated rifle like the FAL, with an adjustable gas system.
I wish I had either option, but personally I would probably go with a .223
Im not going to lie, but I have very little knowledge on suppressors and their effects on different calibers, so I have to ask the question. Is .223 quieter than .308 when used with a suppressor?
Im not going to lie, but I have very little knowledge on suppressors and their effects on different calibers, so I have to ask the question. Is .223 quieter than .308 when used with a suppressor?
Kind of Blued
Member
Sorry to drift, but do you have a suppressed .22LR rifle?
Vegaslaith
Member
No, I don't have anything chambered in .22LR. Brentn, I wanna say .223 is all around quieter suppressed, but I'm not sure.
Shung
Member
and it's hard to get a .223 subsonic stabilized in a 1/9 barrel, like in most AR...
I tried it in my M4 with supressor, using 80grains molycoated bullets and shooting rounds 1 by 1, since it would not cycle the bolt... but frankly the sounds suppression is not worth it (mostly because .223 supressor are made to suppress supersonic gaz expansion, and you will still hear the supersonic crack, but you shot will be very hard to localize) compared to a standard 22lr ammo supressed in a bolt rifle or semi auto, which make NO more noise when shooting than a airgun (pellet gun).
you could stabilize a subsonic 55 grain bullet in an 1/9 barelled AR, but than, the ballistic efficency of this bullet would be exactly the same as a 22lr, and it would still make more noise..
If you want something really stealthy, go for a good 22lr supressed.
Now, I heard about 300 whisper etc, but never tried it. maybe it's the best way, if you can afford it. Here, there's no such way.
I tried it in my M4 with supressor, using 80grains molycoated bullets and shooting rounds 1 by 1, since it would not cycle the bolt... but frankly the sounds suppression is not worth it (mostly because .223 supressor are made to suppress supersonic gaz expansion, and you will still hear the supersonic crack, but you shot will be very hard to localize) compared to a standard 22lr ammo supressed in a bolt rifle or semi auto, which make NO more noise when shooting than a airgun (pellet gun).
you could stabilize a subsonic 55 grain bullet in an 1/9 barelled AR, but than, the ballistic efficency of this bullet would be exactly the same as a 22lr, and it would still make more noise..
If you want something really stealthy, go for a good 22lr supressed.
Now, I heard about 300 whisper etc, but never tried it. maybe it's the best way, if you can afford it. Here, there's no such way.
Shung
Member
btw, obviously the .223 would make less noise than the 308 with a same technology suppressor... and this is due to the volume of expanded gaz (more in a 308, so harder to supress)
La Pistoletta
Member
I believe the argument goes that for optimal suppression, since you need to slow down bullets to below the speed of sound anyway, bullets that rely more on mass than speed (as in 7.62 compared to 5.56) will lose comparatively less energy.
Shung
Member
a subsonic 7.62, in my mind would have a terrible dropdown, and therefore a very poor ballistic.
suppressors on assault rifle, are not meant to make the gun silenced, but to make it very hard to localize you when you are shooting with.
suppressors on assault rifle, are not meant to make the gun silenced, but to make it very hard to localize you when you are shooting with.
bogie
Member
Just a suggestion here...
Why .223 or .308? If you want a suppressor, go WAY silent... Get a .45ACP bolt rifle with an integral can, like the new copies they're doing of the delisle...
No, it is not a thousand yard rifle. But if you have your bullet drop stuff together, and know how it is going to shoot, it's a 200 yard rifle.
Why .223 or .308? If you want a suppressor, go WAY silent... Get a .45ACP bolt rifle with an integral can, like the new copies they're doing of the delisle...
No, it is not a thousand yard rifle. But if you have your bullet drop stuff together, and know how it is going to shoot, it's a 200 yard rifle.
Arkady
Member
Take your question over to www.SilencerTalk.com
Good guys, lots of knowledge--that is how I made the decision on mine.
Good guys, lots of knowledge--that is how I made the decision on mine.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
What is the overall goal you are trying to meet here?
I've fired my 16" AR with an OPS Inc. 16th model next to a .308 AI with a Jet can and the AI was noticeably quieter. So caliber isn't the only issue.
I think you'll have a hard time getting the HK91 quieter than an AR though and man, it is going to be filthy.
I've fired my 16" AR with an OPS Inc. 16th model next to a .308 AI with a Jet can and the AI was noticeably quieter. So caliber isn't the only issue.
I think you'll have a hard time getting the HK91 quieter than an AR though and man, it is going to be filthy.
suppressed or unsuppressed, i'd take an AR over an HK91 any day, for nearly any purpose.
my goals in suppressing a rifle, in order of importance:
1. ear pro
2. they're kind of cool / conversation piece
3. possession annoys liberals / gov doesn't want me to have
note that none of those involve hollywood fantasies
my goals in suppressing a rifle, in order of importance:
1. ear pro
2. they're kind of cool / conversation piece
3. possession annoys liberals / gov doesn't want me to have
note that none of those involve hollywood fantasies
Harley Quinn
Member
Maybe with two of us asking, there will be an answer to this question. I really don't understand the desire regarding these two rounds.
The best thing to do is find a round that can go subsonic and still be effective, then go from there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
Funderb
Member
.223 is harder to do subsonic, build an ar in that 338 whisper or whatever.
Vegaslaith
Member
The overall goal is to have a suppressed rifle that is quiet and doesn't drop as much over a long distance. I don't know too much about ballistics though, just that gravity eventually overcomes a bullet's trajectory.
Funderb
Member
then the whisper is for you, look it up, it's a really interesting round
Harley Quinn
Member
More on the 338 Whisper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Whisper
300 grain or up if you can find the bullet or make it (cast) seems to be a good one, but if you want less drop and less FPE then lighter is better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Whisper
300 grain or up if you can find the bullet or make it (cast) seems to be a good one, but if you want less drop and less FPE then lighter is better.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
First thing to understand is that any supersonic round is going to be at least as loud as an unsuppressed .22LR.
In order to get quieter than that, you need to go subsonic. If you also need range and less drop, then you are looking at something like the Whisper rounds - long, heavy rounds with a high ballistic coefficient. If you don't need greater than 100yds, then you can use pistol calibers subsonic.
The Whispers are much neater; but the pistol calibers are a little more accessible and cheaper to shoot.
In order to get quieter than that, you need to go subsonic. If you also need range and less drop, then you are looking at something like the Whisper rounds - long, heavy rounds with a high ballistic coefficient. If you don't need greater than 100yds, then you can use pistol calibers subsonic.
The Whispers are much neater; but the pistol calibers are a little more accessible and cheaper to shoot.
boilingleadbath
Member
A subsonic bullet will drop roughly many times as far at a given range, compared to a normal-speed bullet.
For instance, the drop at range for 1050 fps 165grain .308 (BC of .475):
4" @ 50yards
16" @ 100 yards
67" @ 200 yards
For now, you can just approximate that the drop will be the square of the distance; drop(in) = constant*range(yards)^2
The .300 whisper can propel a 125 grain bullet at 2100 fps:
19" drop at 200 yards
The .308 can propel a 165 grain bullet at 2700 fps:
10" drop at 200 yards
For instance, the drop at range for 1050 fps 165grain .308 (BC of .475):
4" @ 50yards
16" @ 100 yards
67" @ 200 yards
For now, you can just approximate that the drop will be the square of the distance; drop(in) = constant*range(yards)^2
The .300 whisper can propel a 125 grain bullet at 2100 fps:
19" drop at 200 yards
The .308 can propel a 165 grain bullet at 2700 fps:
10" drop at 200 yards
Funderb
Member
maybe it's the 300 wisper that i'm thinking of.
point is, it's not really going to be well suppressed if its supers.
point is, it's not really going to be well suppressed if its supers.
Seafarer12
Member
I would go with a 300 whisper with a 240 grain matchking.
Harley Quinn
Member
The point of the Whisper is...
Subsonic not very noisy at all, bolt action etc..
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