Deep penetrating 9mm “woods load”

someguy2800

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I’ve been searching high and low for the past couple weeks to find a 9mm bullet that checks my personal boxes for what I like in a “hunting bullet” to use in my every day carry LC9S and it was right under my nose. I carry this a lot around my property and when I go camping or atv riding in the summer or snowmobiling in the winter for this kind of situation below.



I realize a 3” 9mm is not the best choice to keep yourself from getting stomped to death by a moose, but it’s what I like to carry so might as well optimize it. I wanted something with a big wide flat meplat, that would penetrate about 3-4 feet, and expand to just over bullet diameter. All the jacketed hollow point on the market that I’ve tested all either expand way too big to try to reduce over penetration in 2 legged predators, or don’t expand at all if the impact velocity is too low. A truncated flat point FMJ or typical 147gr cast bullet penetrates like 5 or 6 feet and doesn’t really transfer much energy. I wanted something like 124-150 grain weight with a big wide flat meplat like a WFN revolver bullet, but I have never really been able to find such a bullet in 9mm except for some from a couple very expensive boutique casting companies. In the past I’ve been using a Berry’s plated target hollow point as these have the widest meplat I’ve ever found in a 9mm bullet but these are extremely hard and will not expand at any velocity and they penetrate like an FMJ.

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It finally dawned on me that I had a bag of the perfect bullet sitting in my reloading bench the whole time. These 125 grain .357 Zero JSP bullets do exactly what I want.

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I bought a 1000 of these to shoot in my 357 magnum. When I tested them in water jugs I didn’t really get the mushrooming I wanted from the 357, but that’s exactly what I need in the lower velocity 9mm. Here is what they did a few years ago at about 1400 FPS

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testing them today in 9mm I worked up to +p load of power pistol and got about 1140 fps from the 3” LC9S and 1240 fps from a glock 19 with no signs of pressure. Shot into gallon milk jugs the first bullet went out the bottom of the 7th jug and bounced away, but the 2nd bullet I caught in the 6th jug, which is exactly where I wanted the penetration to be.

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I would like to do some testing to see how well it penetrates a cow bone, but so far I’m very happy with how that turned out.
 
Sounds like you've basically duplicated the 147gr hardcast loads made by Buffalo Bore and others. I've seen test data where those penetrated 60" of ballistic gel and they didn't catch the bullet.

For no more than I'd use those I bought a couple of boxes and they will probably last me the rest of my life.
 
Sounds like you've basically duplicated the 147gr hardcast loads made by Buffalo Bore and others. I've seen test data where those penetrated 60" of ballistic gel and they didn't catch the bullet.

For no more than I'd use those I bought a couple of boxes and they will probably last me the rest of my life.

I made my own version of that but wanted to improve on that concept by finding something that flattens out to transfer energy a little faster. This 152 grain hard cast bullet from GT Bullets does 990 FPS from my LC9s above a load of AA7, but they shoot through 4 feet of jugs and right through the 2x6 behind them, which is not what I want

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This is about the closest cast bullet I’ve been able to find to what I would want, but the lube grooves are not really in the right place to fit in a 9mm case, and with the slight flattening I’m getting with the JSP I actually get a better meplat than that anyway.
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/357-lbt-150gr-fnb-gc/

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That does look like a nice bullet. I agree the jsp does a better job in this scenario. It actually looks better coming out of the 9 then the 357.
 
My woods load in 9mm is a 130 grain .356”, Winchester FMJ-FP.
Should be moving pretty good from my 6” Glock..
Those moose can be very aggressive.
 
I made my own version of that but wanted to improve on that concept by finding something that flattens out to transfer energy a little faster. This 152 grain hard cast bullet from GT Bullets does 990 FPS from my LC9s above a load of AA7, but they shoot through 4 feet of jugs and right through the 2x6 behind them, which is not what I want

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How's the leading?
 
Try Blue Dot under that JSP. That way, if you miss the vitals the flame will scare it off.
"Let's try it. I mean most animals retreat from fire, yes?" Science Officer Ash.

Ah the good ole flaming dirt. I haven’t seen a canister of that in nearly a decade now.
 
I recently bought a batch of rmr NUKE just this purpose, and haven't worked them up yet. https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-124-gr-rmr-jhp-mpr-nuke/

I know, bow hunting Saturday....I was more focused on tuning the new self bow than making new ammo. Last spring I bought my wife a new S&W ez shield and it was a delight to shoot, and MUCH lighter to carry than my 44.

I actually was just testing that bullet this morning. They are so incredibly cheap that I figured if they perform well I’ll just use that as both my practice, and carry ammo. I worked up a petty stout load in my full size SR9 to 1140 fps using CFE Pistol. The same load in my LC9s went 1070 fps and then shot one into water jugs with that. I recovered both the jacket and core in the 3rd jug.

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This was certainly earning the name “Nuke”, so I thought perhaps I just need to take my foot off the gas a little here so I downloaded a bit to right around 1000 fps. At that speed the bullet went through 4 jugs and lodged sideways into the 2x4 backer with no expansion. As I’ve come to expect from RMR, they are exceptionally accurate in my SR9, so I’m going to carry and shoot them all through that and then decide if I want to buy more of them. I would say if you are going to use them make sure you get the velocity up around 1100, but this is just one test with water jugs rather than real gel.

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Would RMR's Matchwinner series (truncated cone, flat point) be worth considering for this application?

I’ve tested those before in the past. They will shoot through 6 feet of water jugs and keep going. So if you want max possible penetration and low energy transfer then that would do pretty good.

Here is a test of the new 115gr truncated flat nose that the army is apparently going to issue.

 
I've not shot enough of them to really determine. But I have not seen any leading in the 40 or so I shot during my testing.
Not being able to see any leading after 40 shots sounds like a great start to me.
I know a guy that loaded up some hot 41mags with cast lead bullets, shot about 42 of them noticed he had extreme leading, had to SS bore brush the lead out.
Problem is, he loaded like 400-500 like that.
He was using H110 and I suspect the bullets were a bit undersized for his bore.
 
I actually was just testing that bullet this morning. They are so incredibly cheap that I figured if they perform well I’ll just use that as both my practice, and carry ammo. I worked up a petty stout load in my full size SR9 to 1140 fps using CFE Pistol. The same load in my LC9s went 1070 fps and then shot one into water jugs with that. I recovered both the jacket and core in the 3rd jug.

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This was certainly earning the name “Nuke”, so I thought perhaps I just need to take my foot off the gas a little here so I downloaded a bit to right around 1000 fps. At that speed the bullet went through 4 jugs and lodged sideways into the 2x4 backer with no expansion. As I’ve come to expect from RMR, they are exceptionally accurate in my SR9, so I’m going to carry and shoot them all through that and then decide if I want to buy more of them. I would say if you are going to use them make sure you get the velocity up around 1100, but this is just one test with water jugs rather than real gel.

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I’ve tested those before in the past. They will shoot through 6 feet of water jugs and keep going. So if you want max possible penetration and low energy transfer then that would do pretty good.

Here is a test of the new 115gr truncated flat nose that the army is apparently going to issue.


Just because it doesn't go through a 3a panel doesn't mean it "stoped it" if the bullet pushes the vest 2.5 inches into the chest cavity that person could still be dead or have a lung punctured by broken rib bits, which means they probably won't make it to a hospital.
 
Update on this. After shooting this load a bit I had to abandon it due to reliability. I found that with a couple of my other magazines that it will nose down and fail to feed the first round out of the magazine. So back to the drawing board. I decided to look at some other .357 bullets and after playing around at the reloading bench I found that this ruger’s chamber is so big that I can actually load a 158 grain XTP all the way out to full mag length and it still plunks.

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Obviously this won’t chamber in most 9mm barrels but it drops right into both my LC9s’s and my SR9. It’s just a little bit too long in my max9 and my Star BM’s. It won’t even remotely fit in my S&W’s or my 2 PSA daggers. That’s fine though because I only intend to use it in the LC9s.

To begin working up a load for it I sorted out 200 CCI cases out of my brass bucket and then weight sorted them from 56.5 to 58.5 grains. I think this is an important step whenever you are going to work up a +p loading. I picked AA7 as my powder of choice. Using quick load as my guide I worked up to 7.2 grains with the bullet seated at 1.160 oal. Quickload estimates this at 36,800 psi, which is just below the sammi max for 9mm +p of 38,500 psi. Shooting it over the chronograph I get just under the velocity that quickload estimates. I get an average of 980 FPS an no primer flattening or other pressure signs.

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Shooting this into water jugs I got penetration into the 5th jug and nice controlled expansion.

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Might give Hornady Critical Duty factory loads a look. Deep penetrating plus P.
 
Update on this. After shooting this load a bit I had to abandon it due to reliability. I found that with a couple of my other magazines that it will nose down and fail to feed the first round out of the magazine. So back to the drawing board. I decided to look at some other .357 bullets and after playing around at the reloading bench I found that this ruger’s chamber is so big that I can actually load a 158 grain XTP all the way out to full mag length and it still plunks.

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Obviously this won’t chamber in most 9mm barrels but it drops right into both my LC9s’s and my SR9. It’s just a little bit too long in my max9 and my Star BM’s. It won’t even remotely fit in my S&W’s or my 2 PSA daggers. That’s fine though because I only intend to use it in the LC9s.

To begin working up a load for it I sorted out 200 CCI cases out of my brass bucket and then weight sorted them from 56.5 to 58.5 grains. I think this is an important step whenever you are going to work up a +p loading. I picked AA7 as my powder of choice. Using quick load as my guide I worked up to 7.2 grains with the bullet seated at 1.160 oal. Quickload estimates this at 36,800 psi, which is just below the sammi max for 9mm +p of 38,500 psi. Shooting it over the chronograph I get just under the velocity that quickload estimates. I get an average of 980 FPS an no primer flattening or other pressure signs.

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Shooting this into water jugs I got penetration into the 5th jug and nice controlled expansion.

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Can you run those numbers again but with a 9.5 in barrel, please.
My 9mm sten gun eats "DANGER DO NOT LOAD" like a 357mag eats 38spls.
 
Enlighten us then as to what the correct thing to do is when a moose tries to stomp you to death on your snowmobile.



It wasn't my video by why wouldn't you? Going to stand there and wait for it to get back up and charge you again?
Trying not to judge (city boy here and never seen a moose in the wild). But why wouldn't the snowmobile driver turn around and flee when the moose turned and walked away the first time?
 
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