Deer Hunters Discover Marijuana Grow in Utah Mountains

[dsdanger]

It seems like this has been happening a lot lately. Check out the article:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4579512

In this case, there were actually two guards at the site, one of them armed. Being a person who enjoys hiking in the mountains (often alone), these sorts of incidents have the potential to create more of a "wild west" scenario than I'm comfortable with. My questions:

1) Has anyone here ever encountered a similar situation in the wilderness and how did it go?

2) What precautions, training, tips, etc. do you feel would best prepare you in advance to deal with such a situation? (Please don't just respond "carry a backpack full of ammo" ).

 

[JBURGII]

Sounds like a lot of my neighbors.. Oregon has a few types like that in the hills...

 

[TAB]

That has been a prob in northern CA as well.

Like every thing else in SD, knowing your surroundings is every thing. In other words, look for things that are out of place.

 

[Jeff White]

Displaying weapons is likely to get you shot. You have no idea how many guards they have or what they are armed with. Your best bet is to try to slip away unnoticed.

Jeff

 

[B yond]

You may not see all the 'guards,' it may be a 'legal' grow (like a medical co-op), you'd be escalating a situation that was not life threatening, and you'd be inciting a violent response.

Jeez.

The OP was asking how to avoid a 'wild west' situation. I'd say not drawing a gun and pointing it at people without provocation might be a good start.

Just turn around and walk away.

 

[ezypikns]

Even if you have a weapon......

your best tool (maybe) is your brain. Just leave.

Even if you did manage to get into some kind of incident, the "guards" might be equipped with rifles. Matching a handgun against a long gun is a dumb idea.

 

[A man with a gun!]

'Round here you best keep your eyes peeled while in the backwoods. Legal grows tend to be closer to homes so the grower can keep an eye on the crop.

In the outback, it tends to be our brown brothers from south of the border funded by the Mexican Mafia. Remember illegal aliens have little to lose. They know their vantage points and trails and have the advantage.

Well used trails where there should be none, black poly water pipe and any sign of human activity should put you on guard.

Use your nose... That stuff can be smelled from quite a distance. If it don't seem right turn around and notify your local Sheriff.

 

[loneviking]

I cut wood out on BLM land here in Nevada. It's not the best place to grow dope, but sometimes there are growers. A trio of BLM employees stumbled on too a plot north and west of Reno. After a bit of a standoff, they managed to leave on foot and were picked up later by BLM rangers. The bigger problem is Meth. If you find a site with gallon milk jugs, coolers, ands tarps--it may be a meth lab. The local BLM office even has a flyer showing what a typical lab on BLM land looks like.

What I do is always take my binoculars and glass an area well before going in to cut wood. I also am always armed.

 

[JoeSlomo]

2) What precautions, training, tips, etc. do you feel would best prepare you in advance to deal with such a situation? (Please don't just respond "carry a backpack full of ammo"

Route selection: Plan your route accordingly. Folks growing dope will want to keep them in out of the way spots. Know the main trail networks and stick to them for most of your travel.

Land navigation: Map, compass, GPS. Gotta have em', gotta know how to use ALL of them.

Situational awareness: Be aware of your surroundings while moving. See, hear, and smell things prior to "stumbling" upon them. This includes critters on 2 to 4 legs, crawlies, and dope fields.

Gather intel: Prior to moving through an area, see if you can talk to somebody that has been there before. Maybe a ranger, LEO, local, or even an online BLOG.

Establish a "no later than time": Tell somebody WHERE you are going, when you are leaving, and WHEN you will be back. Be it a friend, or some type of official, SOMEBODY should know where it is you have traveled to and WHEN you SHOULD be back. That way it won't take 72 hours before someone notices you're gone.

Turn around and walk away: I would NOT mess with any dope fields, nor would I want to have to get in a fire fight. Walking away would more likely be the best option to avoid both of those possibilities. Remember the spot, and pass the info to the authorities.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Use your nose... That stuff can be smelled from quite a distance.

I must have gone to a really good high school, because I have no idea what it smells like. Would my local police station be able to tell me? They show samples at county fairs and the like. Or is just smelling the stuff bad for you?

 

[sherman123]

I'm not to sure if checking with the locla sheriff will lead you to any information ahead of time since they probably woul'dve either busted the dope field or are in the process of busting if they happened to even know about it. The best thing to do I can think of is to just beat it as fast as possible in case there does happen to be armed guards willing to fire uopn you just for your prescence. Although there probably isn't I would assume there's a whole army and hightail it back if I were caught in that situation. The best thing to do is just vote pro-hemp whenever the issue comes up in the polls. The closer we are to legalization the better chance we have of avoiding this kind of crap happening when there's a black market involved. Obviously the alcohol prohibition fueld the gangster world of the 20s.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Sorry, I didn't say that clearly.
Would me local police station be able to tell me what it smells like?

The best thing to do is just vote pro-hemp whenever the issue comes up in the polls.

Okay, I need to make this clear, my "voulenteer army" thing was a joke, I'm not a raging maniac, and if I had any friends, they'd tell you what a nice guy I am.

 

[mljdeckard]

In Utah, current precedent allows the smell of raw marijuana as probable cause to search a vehicle. It DOES have a very distinct smell, and is obvious when in bulk.

TRUST ME. There is no such thing as medical pot in Utah.

The bust was in Sanpete County, the middle of the state. It's where we go to find some mountains to hunt or recreate in without a lot of interference from the .gov. It's one of the last places in the state where you can go with your truck, trailer, four-wheelers, dogs, guns and horses, and camp where you want for as long as you want. I'm a bit interested to know exactly where the patch was, I'm sure I've been there at one time or another.

This has been a record year for pot busts of this type in UT. There was a weekend sweep of such patches in Washington, Iron, and (I think) San Juan counties earlier this summer. The growers are getting more brave, and people are becoming more mobile with better roads, GPS, and guilt about laziness.

When I was in HS, me and a friend found a patch that was less than an acre in the hills on the border between Iron and Washington counties. We saw patches of fence, and wires along the ground which I thought at the time were tripwires, but I think I might have been giving the farmers too much credit. We called the Sheriff. Saw him a few months later and asked, he assured me it had been taken care of. (Burned, no suspects caught, at least not that were publicized.)

There is surveillance video of these guys in the most recent bust wearing handguns. Ok. But if you go with just a handgun in THOSE mountains, you're going to find yourself outgunned pretty quickly. I suspect they were mostly trying to be prepared for the competition, not the local heat and citizens. But it's a good example of why I have preached for years, and recently converted my dad and a lot of my friends to the truck gun theory.

 

[sherman123]

Not having a gun displayed unless you're threatened in that situation is vital. For those deer hunters they already had their long guns and although that beats the pants off a handgun having it out in the open is a good way to get shot. When you're walking in the woods(just like walking anywhere) you should be looking all around you as you walk too many people tend to walk around with their eyes low towards the ground(used to be me as a teenager). That's poor situational awareness just be ready and only get your carry weapon out if you have to.

 

[The Bushmaster]

B yond...A legal grow? If it's legal (and it wouldn't be). Why would they be growing it out in [MY] wilderness??

 

[mljdeckard]

Not out there. The growers were the ones out of their element, THEY are the ones who shouldn't have been open-carrying in the commission of a felony. If they pulled on anyone, all they are doing is drawing attention to their operation. Their patch gets passed many times every day by guys like me, with a rifle on the rack of their ATV. In UT, we are allowed to open carry to begin with, and displaying or carrying a fully loaded EBR doesn't even get a glance from the sheriff.

Like I said, they were armed against rivals, not local citizens.

 

[sherman123]

i understand someone may very well already have a gun out. Possibly a rifle in the hands for deer or on the rack of an atv as was mentioned before. I'm all for open carry but i dont believe I would draw a weapon if I were in walking around and stumbled upon armed guards. That creates confusion and they don't know if you're a citizen that has nothing to do with the grow operation or someone trying to steal their crops and attack them. If I was openly carrying I'd leave it in the holster or gun rack and take off. I wouldn't involve my weapon unless they pointed thier weapons at me or threatened to.

 

[X-Rap]

The crop they found here outside of town was worth $1,000,000 according to the S.O. Money like that can make people do some real bad stuff. My advice is to always go afield armed preferably with a rifle and move as though you were hunting as far as being aware of the surroundings. If you find something like a pot farm, methlab mark the place with gps and move out carefully.

 

[mljdeckard]

No one suggested drawing on anyone, or confronting anyone. However, I will call or radio the Sheriff, and if at all feasible, I will wait and watch the access to the area. I'm never out there alone.

 

[DZL HOG]

Ive never found any myself while in the woods, but I know a few rabbit hunters that have found some pot patches down in the woods. In many cases if its daylight, there is no one around, then just move out of the area without causing harm to anything.

I dont suggest drawing, or asking too many questions if you find someone "working a garden" in the middle of the woods.
In this area most of the patches ppl find is a small time grower/seller or just doing it for personal use with just a few plants. Just keep on moving and act is if you never saw it.
But chances are if you stumble upon a big time outfit where life has no value, and only money does, you'd probly be staring(or worse) at the business end of a rifle long before you know whats happening.

Theres a story in this area of a couple deputies finding a huge marijuana patch. They could never catch anyone at the site, so they decided to stake it out at night to make the "big bust". One night the guys finally came back for the harverst, several guys got out with assualt rifles and stood guard while the others cut the stuff down and loaded it up. The two deputies decided best to stay hidden, due to being out numbered.

JImbo,
It definitely has a distinct and nasty smell, worse than cigarettes. Hard to describe in words. I dont see how any one could smoke that crap. Once you get a whiff of it you'll remember it. It was just a few years ago(Im 24now) when I first smelled it at party when someone lit up. I was in Arbys yesterday for lunch, an older couple(60s??) came in while I was leaving, just passing by them I could smell it. Kinda made me laugh alil as I walked out.

 

[xx7grant7x]

keep on walking

 

[Ash]

It has a funky, almost oregeno smell to it. I've encountered it plenty of times in the woods while at work. Sometimes its in pots, sometimes in the ground.

Ash

 

[conw]

Make no mistake about it, this is organized crime we're talking about here. The good part is that it is likely to be very well hidden and you have a low probability of running into it unless you're on a multi-day adventure.

The bad part is that booby traps and armed guards/gardeners (guardeners?) are the norm for big operations. Shotgun/tripwire set-ups, etc. The guys often have communications devices.

A large mature female plant can be worth 36 grand easy. Imagine stumbling upon a hundred of those (worth $3.5 million roughly). I would be worried about being shot in the back as I walked away.

Like someone else said, if you smell "the smell" just turn around and skedaddle. I am not aware of any murders of wanderers who came across a big crop, but these folks could have just disappeared. There are stories of experienced woodsmen just disappearing. The smell can be anything from a sweet-smelling herbal smell, somewhere between oregano and sage, to a fruity smell, to a skunk-like smell that won't go away.

The plants can be very hard to see, so your nose is your friend.

You're probably way more likely to suffer a bear attack on the West coast than run into a dangerous mj grow statistically speaking. But I have no idea what I'd do - try to sneak away I suppose. I have no clue about the tactics of the thing, but I think if you had a buddy and were both armed laying down cover fire as you took cover could be a good idea, then scattering.

 

[offthepaper]

A large mature female plant can be worth 36 grand easy.

Huh?
That would have to resemble the plant in Jack and the Beanstalk!
I used to know guys who grew their own and it was'nt worth even a fraction of what you're talking. If it was, they never would have quit.

 

[dsdanger]

I'm glad for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is to get out of dodge as safely as possible. That's the most logical.

As for sticking to major trails and popular areas... that's nice with the kids; but when looking for animals, the more remote the terrain the better. Unfortunately that's where the danger usually lies I think. Besides hunting, one of my favorite hobbies is exploring ghost towns and abandoned mining camps... not exactly the best place to run into any sort of organized enemy.

I can't count the number of times I've encountered shady characters out in the woods, but open carrying usually makes them quite courteous. It's usually losers heading into easily accessible woods near trail heads to retrieve their stash. But I would hate to run afoul of the organized ones, those parasites who place no value on human life. I may have to replace the sidearm with an EBR on my back when I go exploring (just in case worse comes to worst).