MeekandMild
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What states allow hunting deer with crossbows? What is the maximum range for a crossbow and is it any harder to shoot than a rifle? What kinds of crossbows are the best?
Deer with crossbow?
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5ptdeerhunter
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In Michigan I believe you can use a crossbow for archery season only if you are unable to draw a bow back. You need a doctor or to prove it also or something like that. But for firearm season you can use a crossbow if you choose.
CZ 75 BD
Member
Alabama
as of last week has changed the laws to allow crossbows.
Also turkey decoys.
What is the world coming to?
as of last week has changed the laws to allow crossbows.
Also turkey decoys.
What is the world coming to?
Smokey Joe
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X-bo huntg
My WI buds tell me that there, a crossbow is allowed provided you are either: Certified disabled, unable to draw a regular bow, or, Over 65.
My one-armed friend assures me that you don't want to hunt with a crossbow unless you can't hunt any other way, due to short range < 40 yd, rainbow-like trajectory, and poor penetration. He draws his "regular" bow with his teeth, using a nylon mouth tab, and his right hand, in preference to using a crossbow. (BTW, he is GOOD with a bow, has placed third in the Badger State Games, which has no special handicapped division.) He has taken a deer with a x-bow, and several with regular bow.
A crossbow is NOT a silent rifle. It is NOT a more powerful or accurate archery weapon.
Seems to me it is a hunting weapon of last resort.
My WI buds tell me that there, a crossbow is allowed provided you are either: Certified disabled, unable to draw a regular bow, or, Over 65.
My one-armed friend assures me that you don't want to hunt with a crossbow unless you can't hunt any other way, due to short range < 40 yd, rainbow-like trajectory, and poor penetration. He draws his "regular" bow with his teeth, using a nylon mouth tab, and his right hand, in preference to using a crossbow. (BTW, he is GOOD with a bow, has placed third in the Badger State Games, which has no special handicapped division.) He has taken a deer with a x-bow, and several with regular bow.
A crossbow is NOT a silent rifle. It is NOT a more powerful or accurate archery weapon.
Seems to me it is a hunting weapon of last resort.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
More powerful? You can get crossbows with weights of pull that the Governator would have difficulty using a compound bow of that weight.
Georgia recently allowed crossbows for all archery season. Before it was limited to people who were disabled. The pistol rounds once had a requirement (IIRC) of 500 ft/lbs at 100yds. Any centerfire pistol round is legal now.
Seems a group of states got together a little compact, i.e, if you violate a game law of a state you do not have to return to that state for trial...you can be tried in your state of residence if it is a signatory of the compact. The states signing found it necessary to get in step about certain items.
Georgia recently allowed crossbows for all archery season. Before it was limited to people who were disabled. The pistol rounds once had a requirement (IIRC) of 500 ft/lbs at 100yds. Any centerfire pistol round is legal now.
Seems a group of states got together a little compact, i.e, if you violate a game law of a state you do not have to return to that state for trial...you can be tried in your state of residence if it is a signatory of the compact. The states signing found it necessary to get in step about certain items.
Stand_Watie
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In Texas it's legal during rifle season I believe, and I think during bow season for those with certain disabilities.
Smokey Joe
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More powerful...?
Well, Byron, I've never hunted w/an x-bo myself. Have, however, worked with disabled hunters a bit, and the agreement is pretty general: The x-bo is the least-preferred weapon. Disabled hunters who can manage a regular compound do better with that. I expect it's the same for the able-bodied.
As to power: The more powerful are your limbs, the more of a hassle it is to cock the x-bow. Yes, the really stiff ones do have more power than the others, but they're such a hassle to get cocked (For the really heavy ones, you have to use a little hand-cranked winch, usually.) that that in itself becomes a factor.
Basically, the comparison between a "regular" bow and its arrow, and a x-bo and its arrow, goes thus: The x-bo casts a very short stiff heavy arrow, with a very short string movement, in comparison to the conventional bow, be it compound, recurve, or traditional. This amounts to giving the short stiff arrow a heavy dose of momentum, violently rather than smoothly. The short stiff arrow responds poorly to this, as it doesn't stabilize in flight as readily, therefore wobbling all the way along its trajectory, and if it is shot less than perfectly, that too gets worse instead of settling down as the arrow flies. The arrow from a regular bow is started over a greater distance (longer string movement), therefore more smoothly, and being longer it stabilizes in its flight rather than aggravating any wobble it may have had when shot. This is not just my theory; I have it from bowhunting experts I've talked with.
However, to each his own. If after careful consideration it seems like THE weapon for you, go for it!
Well, Byron, I've never hunted w/an x-bo myself. Have, however, worked with disabled hunters a bit, and the agreement is pretty general: The x-bo is the least-preferred weapon. Disabled hunters who can manage a regular compound do better with that. I expect it's the same for the able-bodied.
As to power: The more powerful are your limbs, the more of a hassle it is to cock the x-bow. Yes, the really stiff ones do have more power than the others, but they're such a hassle to get cocked (For the really heavy ones, you have to use a little hand-cranked winch, usually.) that that in itself becomes a factor.
Basically, the comparison between a "regular" bow and its arrow, and a x-bo and its arrow, goes thus: The x-bo casts a very short stiff heavy arrow, with a very short string movement, in comparison to the conventional bow, be it compound, recurve, or traditional. This amounts to giving the short stiff arrow a heavy dose of momentum, violently rather than smoothly. The short stiff arrow responds poorly to this, as it doesn't stabilize in flight as readily, therefore wobbling all the way along its trajectory, and if it is shot less than perfectly, that too gets worse instead of settling down as the arrow flies. The arrow from a regular bow is started over a greater distance (longer string movement), therefore more smoothly, and being longer it stabilizes in its flight rather than aggravating any wobble it may have had when shot. This is not just my theory; I have it from bowhunting experts I've talked with.
However, to each his own. If after careful consideration it seems like THE weapon for you, go for it!
Stand_Watie
Member
How'd you like to try and draw this one? They estimate it to have a 160# pull. It belonged to Colonel "little John" Naylor in the 18th century, and for sometime was confused as having belonged to the "Little John" of Robin hood legend.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I don't want to hijack the thread, but from that picture the bow doesn't look like it would be 160. The limbs look too long for the width, for that pull. The old "leverage thing".
This is sorta one of those "When I wuz a kid" deals. Summer of '48, I was really strong into the Indian thing. We had a lot of cedar trees on the place; I must have made a couple of dozen bows, along with the "accoutrements".
Grampaw had a draw-knife, and the neighbors had turkeys. What more could a kid need?
Art
This is sorta one of those "When I wuz a kid" deals. Summer of '48, I was really strong into the Indian thing. We had a lot of cedar trees on the place; I must have made a couple of dozen bows, along with the "accoutrements".
Grampaw had a draw-knife, and the neighbors had turkeys. What more could a kid need?Art
goalie
Member
In Minnesota you can use a crossbow with a doctor's letter stating why a regular bow is not feasable. I got hurt in the Marines and have some serious issues with my elbow where I took some schrapnel. I got the letter and looked into crossbows, but after a little research I chose to go the black-powder season route for deer hunting, as the crossbow really didn't do it for me. Plus, the Minnesota black-powder season is pretty cool. Only iron sights, and there are not a lot of black powder hunters.
Stand_Watie
Member
That's pretty cool Art. I have more Cedar around my place than you can shake a stick at. I never knew it was such a usable wood until recently. The heart is really strong and impermeable, we use it as a sort of poor man's "pressure treated" wood around here. My neighbor builds gorgeous "hope chests" out of it. He's got his own little mini-sawmill and everything. I wouldn't know how it compares to Yew. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the historians who estimated the pull weight on that particular bow erred on the side of exaggeration. Historians typically don't have PHD's in mechanical physics after all. Even figuring for exaggeration though I'll bet it has a heck of a heavy draw
Leadbutt
Member
If you want GOOD X-bow advice, go to the Exccaliber site, those boys and girls can help alot,
And will give you the facts not, those but out by stick bow shooters
And will give you the facts not, those but out by stick bow shooters
Newt
Member
Arkansas G&F allows the use of a crossbow; they have for as long as I can remember, and I'm 25.
mohican
Member
I hunt with both compound and crossbows
Ok, first a physics lesson
A crossbow is generally a short, stiff bow turned horizontally and attacked to a stock.
According to Smokey Joe "My one-armed friend assures me that you don't want to hunt with a crossbow unless you can't hunt any other way, due to short range < 40 yd, rainbow-like trajectory, and poor penetration. He draws his "regular" bow with his teeth, using a nylon mouth tab, and his right hand, in preference to using a crossbow. (BTW, he is GOOD with a bow, has placed third in the Badger State Games, which has no special handicapped division.) He has taken a deer with a x-bow, and several with regular bow"
I find this fairly misinformed. Crossbows have equivalent arrow speeds and trajectories to compound-cam bows. IMO, you will have to be shooting way out of ethical bow range to notice a trajectory difference between Compound crossbows and compound bows. The crossbows have higher draw weights but shorter arms which gives them less time to accelerate an arrow.
I don't think of too many archery hunters that embrace shots beyond 35 yards, whether it is Compound bow, cross bow, recurve, ect. In fact, if you polled bowhunters, many set their limits for hunting at 20 yards.
As stated, I hunt with both. I treestand hunt with my compound, but if I want to still hunt, or try spot and stalk, I'll take my crossbow. When hunting from the ground, that eliminates the time and motion of drawing the bow.
Another Smokey Joe ism"Basically, the comparison between a "regular" bow and its arrow, and a x-bo and its arrow, goes thus: The x-bo casts a very short stiff heavy arrow, with a very short string movement, in comparison to the conventional bow, be it compound, recurve, or traditional. This amounts to giving the short stiff arrow a heavy dose of momentum, violently rather than smoothly. The short stiff arrow responds poorly to this, as it doesn't stabilize in flight as readily, therefore wobbling all the way along its trajectory, and if it is shot less than perfectly, that too gets worse instead of settling down as the arrow flies. The arrow from a regular bow is started over a greater distance (longer string movement), therefore more smoothly, and being longer it stabilizes in its flight rather than aggravating any wobble it may have had when shot. This is not just my theory; I have it from bowhunting experts I've talked with."
Smokey, you need to find better experts
Uh, at 20 yards, I can get my bolts to touch each other. At 30 yards, with a summer of practice behind me, I can easily keep 4 bolts in the Kill zone of my McKenzie deer.
The last study I've read for Ohio, where crossbows have been legal for archery season since the 70's, is that the vast majority of bow hunters use crossbows, or hunt at differing times with crossbows and bows.
The crossbow is a wonderfull "gateway" to archery. I can take someone who has used guns all their life, and usually in an afternoon get them so they can consistently hit from 20-25 yards. Many youth and women are started bowhunting in Ohio with crossbows, and after success with the crossbow they often move to bows.
I think many of the myths bashing crossbows are perpetrated by two types of people - the bow only snobs, and those that don't want to share the woods with more people. And using Ohio for an example, thats what the crossbow does. It gets people into the woods, which creates more hunters, which creates stronger voting blocks for hunting and 2A activities.
For those with no crossbow experience that bash the weapon or its users I have one word for youCANIBAL
Ok, first a physics lesson
A crossbow is generally a short, stiff bow turned horizontally and attacked to a stock.
According to Smokey Joe "My one-armed friend assures me that you don't want to hunt with a crossbow unless you can't hunt any other way, due to short range < 40 yd, rainbow-like trajectory, and poor penetration. He draws his "regular" bow with his teeth, using a nylon mouth tab, and his right hand, in preference to using a crossbow. (BTW, he is GOOD with a bow, has placed third in the Badger State Games, which has no special handicapped division.) He has taken a deer with a x-bow, and several with regular bow"
I find this fairly misinformed. Crossbows have equivalent arrow speeds and trajectories to compound-cam bows. IMO, you will have to be shooting way out of ethical bow range to notice a trajectory difference between Compound crossbows and compound bows. The crossbows have higher draw weights but shorter arms which gives them less time to accelerate an arrow.
I don't think of too many archery hunters that embrace shots beyond 35 yards, whether it is Compound bow, cross bow, recurve, ect. In fact, if you polled bowhunters, many set their limits for hunting at 20 yards.
As stated, I hunt with both. I treestand hunt with my compound, but if I want to still hunt, or try spot and stalk, I'll take my crossbow. When hunting from the ground, that eliminates the time and motion of drawing the bow.
Another Smokey Joe ism"Basically, the comparison between a "regular" bow and its arrow, and a x-bo and its arrow, goes thus: The x-bo casts a very short stiff heavy arrow, with a very short string movement, in comparison to the conventional bow, be it compound, recurve, or traditional. This amounts to giving the short stiff arrow a heavy dose of momentum, violently rather than smoothly. The short stiff arrow responds poorly to this, as it doesn't stabilize in flight as readily, therefore wobbling all the way along its trajectory, and if it is shot less than perfectly, that too gets worse instead of settling down as the arrow flies. The arrow from a regular bow is started over a greater distance (longer string movement), therefore more smoothly, and being longer it stabilizes in its flight rather than aggravating any wobble it may have had when shot. This is not just my theory; I have it from bowhunting experts I've talked with."
Smokey, you need to find better experts Uh, at 20 yards, I can get my bolts to touch each other. At 30 yards, with a summer of practice behind me, I can easily keep 4 bolts in the Kill zone of my McKenzie deer.
The last study I've read for Ohio, where crossbows have been legal for archery season since the 70's, is that the vast majority of bow hunters use crossbows, or hunt at differing times with crossbows and bows.
The crossbow is a wonderfull "gateway" to archery. I can take someone who has used guns all their life, and usually in an afternoon get them so they can consistently hit from 20-25 yards. Many youth and women are started bowhunting in Ohio with crossbows, and after success with the crossbow they often move to bows.
I think many of the myths bashing crossbows are perpetrated by two types of people - the bow only snobs, and those that don't want to share the woods with more people. And using Ohio for an example, thats what the crossbow does. It gets people into the woods, which creates more hunters, which creates stronger voting blocks for hunting and 2A activities.
For those with no crossbow experience that bash the weapon or its users I have one word for youCANIBAL
MeekandMild
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Going back to the third part of my question and rephrasing it, if one were to look at crossbows as two basic types the recurved type and the compound type, which one would be the best for hunting and why?
mohican
Member
The compound crossbow will be typically more accurate than a recurve crossbow, but that is relative
especially some of the newer ones utilizing cam technology, the bolt (arrow) launch is more gradual (relative).
Try to find a store that will let you test shoot first
I bought mine last crossbow mail order, and it has one failing that had I handled one in person I would have noticed, I have to move my whole hand off the stock to releast the safety. I prefer a safety that my thumb can flick off while my hand, and especially the trigger finger stays in place.
especially some of the newer ones utilizing cam technology, the bolt (arrow) launch is more gradual (relative
). Try to find a store that will let you test shoot first
I bought mine last crossbow mail order, and it has one failing that had I handled one in person I would have noticed, I have to move my whole hand off the stock to releast the safety. I prefer a safety that my thumb can flick off while my hand, and especially the trigger finger stays in place.
Smokey Joe
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Response
Mr. Mohican: It is good that the crossbow works for you. As I said,
Mr. Mohican: It is good that the crossbow works for you. As I said,
It is VERY good that you are introducing new people to hunting--that's a good thing no matter what the weapon, and I am glad you're doing it. My understanding of crossbows does not coincide exactly with yours, however, I would never set myself up as the one true font of wisdom on any topic, nor bash the experiences of others which differ from mine. That is as far as I can respond and stay civil.
mohican
Member
Smokey Joe
If you feel I was uncivil, I apologize
If you feel I was uncivil, I apologize
mohican
Member
Theories of bows being more accurate
Are often just theory.
In practice it is much different. The longer arms on a compound bow give more leverage and time/contact and give more velocity typically than a similar compound crossbow.
Mechanically more accurate? I beg to differ. Look how many people make a living in archery proshops "tuning" bows, juggling shaft lengths, fletchings,broadhead types&weights, rest, dampneners,cam timing to get a bow to shoot well.
Crossbows, on the other hand, are pretty much a take out of the box, sight in and go hunting. They don't seem to be as finicky. The most problmatic area of crossbows is sight longetivity.
Look back to medieval times. The crossbow was so far ahead of the longbow, and many were able to shoot bolt/blades heavy enough to pierce the armor of knights and soldiers of the day, so (sound familiar) many places banned them from use from "the commoners". In other words, the left wing medieval press deemed them the assault rifles of the day.
Are often just theory.
In practice it is much different. The longer arms on a compound bow give more leverage and time/contact and give more velocity typically than a similar compound crossbow.
Mechanically more accurate? I beg to differ. Look how many people make a living in archery proshops "tuning" bows, juggling shaft lengths, fletchings,broadhead types&weights, rest, dampneners,cam timing to get a bow to shoot well.
Crossbows, on the other hand, are pretty much a take out of the box, sight in and go hunting. They don't seem to be as finicky. The most problmatic area of crossbows is sight longetivity.
Look back to medieval times. The crossbow was so far ahead of the longbow, and many were able to shoot bolt/blades heavy enough to pierce the armor of knights and soldiers of the day, so (sound familiar) many places banned them from use from "the commoners". In other words, the left wing medieval press deemed them the assault rifles of the day.
hilljack22
Member
Indiana allows them on the 2nd half of deer season and only to take anterless deer (unless you are handicapped).
I have a Horton Yukon with a #150 pull; it's very straight and accurate out past 35 yards. I took it one year deer hunting, but never saw fur.
I have a Horton Yukon with a #150 pull; it's very straight and accurate out past 35 yards. I took it one year deer hunting, but never saw fur.
Sparky
Member
Alabama has just legalized crossbows for all hunters in the upcoming 2004-2005 hunting season...and the use of decoys for turkey hunting....and the use of scopes on muzzle-loaders.....
There was quite a bit of wailing and knashing of teeth from the "traditional" archery crowd......just as there was when compound bows hit the scene 25 years ago..xcept the traditional guys now are...the compound shooters by and large.
Besides...nobody said you HAD to use a crossbow...or a turkey decoy....or a scoped muzzle-loader...
The apparent thinking is to get younger people into hunting by making some things a bit easier.
There was quite a bit of wailing and knashing of teeth from the "traditional" archery crowd......just as there was when compound bows hit the scene 25 years ago..xcept the traditional guys now are...the compound shooters by and large.
Besides...nobody said you HAD to use a crossbow...or a turkey decoy....or a scoped muzzle-loader...
The apparent thinking is to get younger people into hunting by making some things a bit easier.
mohican
Member
bump for bow season
Greybeard
Member
Cross bows were OKed for Tejas deer on private land roughly 5 years ago under circumstances mentioned above. And they are legal for exotics year round.
I've got a couple of Hortons, a 150-pound recurve with a red dot scope and a compound with convention pins. Both are quite fast, rather flat-shooting and accurate out to 40 to 45 yards (not that I'd shoot a deer at that range). I have noticed that the recurve in particular shoots better groups at 30 yards than at 20 yards, so yes, the projectiles can take some distance to stablize.
As someone stated above, they are not necessarily quiet. Thwack!
I've got a couple of Hortons, a 150-pound recurve with a red dot scope and a compound with convention pins. Both are quite fast, rather flat-shooting and accurate out to 40 to 45 yards (not that I'd shoot a deer at that range). I have noticed that the recurve in particular shoots better groups at 30 yards than at 20 yards, so yes, the projectiles can take some distance to stablize.
As someone stated above, they are not necessarily quiet. Thwack!
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