Defense Caliber choice: 9mm +P, 9mm +P+, or .40 cal.?

[.357 magnum]

Whoa! 2002 thread!

I think thats great! It is still relevant today. In my 9mm for defense I use the Remington 124gr +p Golden Saber one of the best loads for a 9mm. I also like the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p. I honestly do not think shooting plus P ammo in a modern semi-auto is going to really hurt it. It may speed up the aging process a bit, but that's about it. The .40 cal has so many good loads. The Winchester 165gr SXT is one of the best , along with the Corbon 165gr and Reminton 165gr Golden Saber. You also have the Federal 155gr Hydra-Shok. Currently I am using Winchester 180gr SXT and Federal 180gr Hydra-shok's. Thats just because I shoot better with the 180gr load.

The Best to All!

Frank

 

[Willo]

I think the difference between +P and +P+ for defense purposes is pretty moot. Especially indoors. I think one could get away best with a downloaded .40 for in-home defense purposes.

 

[Flyfishtom]

In a barrel under 4 or 5 inches I think +p is wasted. Try the 147 jhp in the
9.

 

[renegade1alpha]

I like the 124gr 9mm. I used to carry 115gr in the 9mm, but decided after some research and testing of my own, that the 124 was a better performer. Speer Gold Dot is my favorite. Doesn't have to be the +P, standard velocity works fine.

I get so tired of hearing so many people saying "buy a .45" or anything along those lines when anyone asks about the 9mm for self defense. Sure, a .45 will make a bigger hole and it is a proven man stopper. But what it all boils down to every time is SHOT PLACEMENT! If you can't hit a damn thing with a .44 or a .45 but you can drive nails with a .22, carry the .22!

My department issue duty weapon is the Glock 17 9mm and our duty ammo is standard velocity 124gr Speer God Dots. And every time someone asks me what I carry I always hear the .45 comments. I own a couple of .45's as well as several other caliber pistols and I can shoot all of them very well. And when it comes to my duty weapon, I can put all 17 rounds fairly rapidly where they count at combat distances. So I don't feel "under gunned" with a 9mm. As a matter of fact I don't feel "under gunned" with my Ruger MKII loaded with CCI Mini-Mags because I can snap off 10 rounds and put them all in a 4-inch circle with phenomenal speed and accuracy. Let Mr. Bad Guy take ten .22's to the face and see how he fares afterwards.

 

[DawgFvr]

115 grain Corbon DPX + P all copper tops

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 9mm 115.htm

 

[saturno_v]

.45 aficionados can't get over the fact that the .40 is as much as effective and powerful if not even more than their loved big bore...

Get a life guys!!! ballistic technology evolved from 1906 you know.....

There are 9 mm loads (non +P) that can almost equal the energy leved of a standard 45....some 9 mm +P can get close to some 45 +P

 

[Sturmgewher]

Don't Know much about the oft metioned Double Tap (is someone here a vendor?) or Speer but I do know that in any caliber it is hard to beat the terminal perfomance of the Glaser Safety Slug, and you have the added benifits of no overpenetration and reduced risk to "bystanders" should a round miss the target since the Glaser disintegrates on impact (this is assuming you didn't actually hit the bystander, of course).

But what it all boils down to every time is SHOT PLACEMENT!

Very very true BUT you don't have to be as picky with your groups with a .45 or .40! When it comes to a choice of being victim or victor, I prefer large holes in vital areas.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

This is like asking which is more effective; hitting a bad guy eight times with a Louisville Slugger or 15 times with a fireplace poker or if you swing it hard or a little bit harder. If you hit him in the head, what does it matter?

 

[Claude Clay]

in new england , my P239 in 40 is a 3 season gun. all season BUG is a 642 or a 332. winter is a colt defender--45 with ball ammo or Rem GS 185gr +p JHP.
the 40 (Rem 180gr JHP) does penetrate well; minimal, if any deflection through a windshield.
i have a p11 that is dependable as a errands piece(with the belt clip) and i do not feel under gunned caring with 9mm +p Rem GS 124 gr JHP or silvertips
i have 9mm/357sig and 40s&w bbls for the p239. a +p+9mm 124 gr is a weak 357sig. loaded proper a 124gr 357sig is a 357 mag. 357sig is LOUD; so i carry in 40. a 180gr 40 crono's the same as a 180gr 45acp. smaller area but essentially the same performance--given the importance of shot placement i find no downside to the 40/45 equation.

Phil D--- but if you only have time to swing once...what would you rather have in your hand?

 

[Northalius]

Don't know if this'll help if you're looking for +p+ 9mm results, but it's 9mm +p, so I guess you can add (or subtract, depending?) some numbers in your head, thinking of +p+?

Here are official gelatin results for all of the DoubleTap loads!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of these tests were done using 10% ballistic gelatin provided by Vyse gelatin using all FBI protocols and 4 layers of denim and two layers of light cotton T-shirt in front of the gelatin.

DoubleTap 9mm+P
115gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1415fps - 12.00" / .70"
124gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1310fps - 13.25" / .70"
147gr. Gold Dot JHP @ 1125fps - 14.00" / .66"

DoubleTap .40 S&W Penetration / expansion
135gr. Nosler JHP @ 1375fps - 12.10" / .72"
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1275fps - 13.00" / .76"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1200fps - 14.0" / .70"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1100fps - 14.75" / .68"
200gr XTP @ 1050fps - 17.75" / .59"

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336612

Here're links to DoubleTap Ammunition website for their 9mm +p and .40 S&W rounds to buy:

9mm +p: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=37

.40 S&W: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=26

Click the list at the top-left of those pages to scroll through their other [powerful] lineup in different calibers, as well. You won't be sorry, if you're truly looking for POWERFULLY loaded factory ammunition! DoubleTap is the spot you'll love!

 

[Deanimator]

Recoil-wise, there's a substantial difference in recoil between 9x19mm and .40S&W.

I've got a Glock 22 and a Glock 19. Even though it weighs more, the Glock 22 recoils a LOT more than the Glock 19.

I'm looking at buying a CZ75B in .40S&W because I think the .40S&W benefits from more weight than the Glocks provide.

 

[FlyPenFly]

What's stupid is, people who advocate 40SW or 9mm +X+X+XP whatever rounds somehow don't compare it to their equivalents in other calibers.

HP expansion isn't anything too great anyway in lethality on a pistol round, it might give you a bit more flexibility if you can't get your shot placement right but it's not the end all.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Simply carry what you shoot the best. Load it with quality hollow points and make sure to put 'em where they need to be.

 

[Sturmgewher]

HP expansion isn't anything too great anyway in lethality on a pistol round, it might give you a bit more flexibility if you can't get your shot placement right but it's not the end all.

Absolutely shot placement is critical, but so too is energy transfer and penetration. We are all aware that hollow points serve to increase the wound channel and stop the projectile in the traget. A 9mm hole going straight through is not as effective as a 9mm expanded to a half inch or so stopping in the thoracic cavity and transfering enrgy to the vital oragns via hydrostatic shock as well as amplifying the effects of central nervous system shock. Conversely, a 9mm that expands before sufficient penetration has occured (I believe the FBI standard is 12", though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) will expend energy in the soft tissues and may not cause the necassary level of trauma to stop an assaillent. As stated by Flypenfly the hollow point does offer flexibility and does so in situations where the shooter needs every advantage available to them. In those very tense moments when your actions will determine whether you or your attacker will be at room temperature the following day, it would be foolhardy not to take any advantage offered.