Your views on .40 Caliber vs. 9mm as a personal defense round?

[Kentak]

"Fast and light VS. Heavy and Slow"

But, the .40 is not slow. It's heavier than the 9, but not a whole lot slower at all. That makes it a good round, but, I think the 9 with modern premium expanding bullets is a fine defense caliber. It's controllable and high cap. I will be the first to admit I can't control my .40's as well as my 9's. I've been almost exclusively a 9mm guy (20+ years), and .40 less than a year.

K

 

[Charles S]

I choose a platform that fits me, in a large enough caliber I can consistently acheive good hits-- For CCW. My choices were made before the .40 came to be . Never warmed up to .40, because my preferred platforms not available in it. I do use 45ACP and 9mm tho.

I fit that same model.

I like the fourty caliber, I just have never seen the justification to change what works for me.

That being stated, I think that the 40 has the edge over the 9 with most ammo. I think ammo selection is more critical with the 9mm.

More importantly I think all pistol calibers adeuate stoppers at best and shot placement is the key to success.

Choose what you will carry the most, it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Charles

 

[klover]

I just warmed up to auto pistols.

I found a P220, and absolutely loved it.
The 40 was for a smaller, more packable ccw compromise. Got a 239, and absolutely love it. The stainless slide makes the recoil very reasonable.
All the other smaller packable ccw's are revolvers (except Makarovs). Going bigger than .45, S&W revolvers are my first choice since they are for bear backup to a long gun or for cycling in the woods.

I try for the biggest diameter hole (to let the motor oil run out quicker) given the carry lightness of the day. I carry the 40 most of the time.

 

[IndianaDean]

It was either here or at the Firing Line recently that some folks in Austria ran some detailed ballistics tests, and the 9mm and .45 both did better than the .40. They were surprised the .40 finished third. I cannot recall now on which board those tests were posted.

 

[Highland Ranger]

Couldn't figure out the ten round reference above till I looked at the date . . . . . .nice to dust off an old one about handgun selection and remember how the 10 round ban impacted choice of caliber.

 

[USPCompact45]

The .40 definately has more recoil. I would choose guns like the xd-40sc and p2000sk in .40 but anything smaller would be 9mm. Yes the .40 is stronger ballistically but if you get hit in the face with a 9mm, getting hit by a 10mm would not be any different.

I think caliber choices is just a piece of mind.

 

[Soybomb]

They will both put a similarly sized hole the same depth in someone using jhps. I'll take more holes quicker.

 

[Euclidean]

The 9mm is "bettah"

The .40 S&W is "mo bettah"

 

[they call me bob]

when i said that 40 is better and proved it, i wasn't saying that 9mm sucks, it is a great caliber. The .40 s&w was engineered by smith adn wesson and federal, it was made to stop a human with 1 well palced shot. I have shot 9mm's and 40 cal's and the difference between their stopping power isn't great. If you want real stopping power in a pistol/revolver get a .500 s&w from taurus with a 2" barrell and load it with cor-bon 275-grain barnes-x hollow points then u got a real stopper... but with the 40 and 9mm all it takes is a well placed shot with a good bullet. If you shoot someone with a 40 and kill thme 1 shot the chances our your 9mm could have performed the same 1 shot stop. i personally like the 40 because the expansion and penetration is better and you have a better chance of stoppnig your assailant 1 shot. But if u r worried about the power issue then just buy a 45 autoloader like a glock or a taurus.

I give the 40 cal a bunch of props. Smith and Wesson and Federal made a great cartridge that does it's job. 9mm has less of a chance of killing someone 1 shot then the 40 because that is what it was made to do. The 9mm is a good caliber but it doesn't jsut have the power to lay down the person u shoot with 1 bullet in a well placed shot, sometimes it take more then 1 shot, like when the cops shot the guy 27 times with +p+ silver tips because of inadequate penetration. they could of layed him out 1 shot with a 40. The 9mm doesn't have the power it takes to penetrate all the way to severe nerves and blood vessels from every angle you could hit the bad guy, but that is why the 40 was created is to make sure it was strong enough and big enough to kill.

Personally i like 9's because they are a great caliber with new cartridges, but when i was out hunting with a pistol i had loaded my gun with some hydra-shoks and i had to shoot a 165 lb. deer 3 times to get it to quit running. The next time i went hunting i broguht a 40 cal wit the same hydra-shoks and layed down a 185 lb. deer 1 shot and i shot it in the same area of the torso as the first deer. after seeing the difference in stopping power in the deers it made me kind of hesitant on whether i want to carry 9mm and trust it to stop the bad guy if i can only hit him 1 time.

most of yall have a debate over the recoil, personally i don't have hat problem, i am a big guy and i can shoot 9's,40's,and 45's with high pressure loads with no trouble and hit my target,

 

[Highland Ranger]

The terms "kill" and "stop" should not be used interchangeably

The difference is that you have the right to self defense (in most areas) not the right to kill. That means that you can take action to defend based on the agressors actions.

Two other important points:
- The self defense, 2a cause is best served by discussing "stops" not "kills".

- You'd also be personally much better off if God forbid something did happen to speak and even condition your self to think in terms of "stopping" an attack.

As far as the technical aspects of one shot stops, you want to dump the most if not all the projectile energy into the target. You don't want to overpenetrate endangering someone behind the agressor.

Shot placement and bullet design being the same:

- too small a caliber and you will not stop the agressor immediately but you will most likely kill the agressor (multiple holes - faster blood loss). Problem is that as the agressor bleeds out, he has plenty of time to continue the attack.

- too large or powerful a round and you risk over penetration endangering innocents and less energy may be dumped into the target = less shock and damage = attack continues

These caliber debates can best be summed up by . . . . "it depends". The difference between 40 and 9mm: it depends!

 

[1911user]

Mr Camp said it nicely. Read his post if you have not :
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=33411&postcount=4

 

[sturmruger]

You just had to stir the pot didn't you. I think this is the first time I have ever seen this discussed. At least you did compare the 9 with the .45!!

 

[orionengnr]

Quote:
"like when the cops shot the guy 27 times with +p+ silver tips because of inadequate penetration. they could of layed him out 1 shot with a 40."
End quote..

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!

 

[3rdpig]

For me shot placement and fast follow up shots are the most important thing. I use the the best caliber/gun to achieve the best compromise of power for the first shot and speed and accuracy on follow up shots. In a full sized gun I like .40 in a Glock 22 or .45 in a Sig P220. I tend to lean toward the Glock simply because I like the double stack magazine capacity, all other things appear nearly equal. In a concealed gun I drop down to the 9mm in a Glock 26. I've tried the .40 Glock 27, but follow up shots are a good one second or more behind the 26. I can place the second aimed shot from the 9mm while I'm still bringing the .40 back on target. This is not the case with the full size pistols, the difference is much smaller, enough to make me go with the larger caliber.

 

[Srigs]

Bigger is always better!

 

[C-grunt]

Hey Bob, if you think the 9mm doesnt have the penetration of a .40, look up some ballistics for the 147 grain rounds. The .40 isnt the uber death round your making it out to be.

 

[Marshall]

Holy thread resurrection.

 

[doofus]

everyone i have seen post boasts about the 9mm +p's being just as good as the 40 without +p, but nowadays there is 40 +p's too.

From:
http://greent.com/40Page/general/plusp.htm
"There is no such thing as .40S&W +p! Period. No exceptions. There is not a SAAMI specification for .40S&W loads beyond the standard pressure. Any company which sells ammunition loaded above the standard SAAMI specification is selling dangerous ammunition. There are no firearms rated to use such ammunition. If you really feel you need a .40S&W +p, you can go out and buy a proper gun and ammunition for it. Just go to the gun shop and ask for a 10mm."

 

[Marshall]

All Buffalo Bore Heavy 40 S&W +P loads use flash suppressed powders that give high velocities at low pressures. Since over 90% of all human shootings in the USA happen in low light, we believe that flash suppressed powders are a potentially life saving advantage—you don’t want to be blind after you fire one shot in a life threatening, high stress situation.

155gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1300 fps (582 ft. lbs.)

180gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1100 fps (484 ft. lbs.)

180gr. FMJ @ 1100 fps (484 ft. lbs.)


“Some pistols chambered for the 40 S&W cartridge may not provide complete support of the case head. If this condition exists, normal pressure loads such as those shown here can cause the case wall to bulge or rupture at the unsupported point. Contact your firearm manufacturer to determine if your pistol completely supports the case head, or ask a gunsmith to inspect your pistol before using it with ANY ammunition. It is the gun owners responsibility to know his firearm and its capabilities and limitations.”


Glock happens to chamber their 40 S&W pistols without a fully supported chamber and safety notices are likely aimed at Glock. I know of no other 40 S&W handguns being sold in the US that don’t have fully supported chambers. If you really want to shoot our 40S&W ammo in your Glock, have an after market barrel that uses a supported chamber, dropped into it. This is a fairly common practice and will give you the safety margin needed to fire our ammo in your Glock. It will also likely give you more velocity that the factory Glock barrel. I personally own two Glock Model 23’s. Both of mine are going to get after market barrels dropped in so that I can use this excellent ammo in them.

Buffalo Bore

 

[they call me bob]

heh

here is 40 +p 180 grain hollow point
http://www.shootersmart.com/site/Library/display/?prodid=31768

i never said 9mm doesnt penetrate enough i just said it has failed alot more then the 40 has and the 40 is not an almighty round if u r looking for an almighty round then buy a m92 (.50 bmg) with some fragmenting rounds. but 40 is better then the 9mm.

 

[RFM]

Both are very effective rounds with the right loads. Personally, if I was gonna use
a 9mm I would want a barrel that's at least 4 inches or longer. Since I wanted
to carry a sub-compact with a short barrel, I went with a bigger bullet.
The .45 ACP.

 

[P-35/53]

I agree with Mr. Camp . Either will do if you can do. I used to be a die hard 45 fanatic but over the years and seeing the results of different calibers in shootings - placement is most important.

 

[agtman]

"The .40 s&w was engineered by smith adn wesson and federal, it was made to stop a human with 1 well palced shot."

Actually, no.

When once upon a time there was only the 9mm vs the .45acp, 1911-guru and gunfight expert Jeff Cooper engineered the 10mm AUTO (okay, he had some help) for the express purpose of stopping an aggressive 2-legged predator with one well-placed shot C.O.M. Cooper envisioned the 10mm as a combat cartridge for a large-frame (.45-size) autoloader - whether that "combat" occurred on a battlefield or in an urban back alley.

The .40S&W, on the other hand, was a derivative cartridge created from the 10mm for two primary reasons, neither of which has anything to do with one-shot stops on humans:

* The first reason involves individual convenience: the .40's shorter overall size allowed it to be loaded into 9mm-size autos (smaller and lighter to carry ). Small-frame guns fit the hands of the females and the small-statured men (i.e., typically non-shooter types) so enthusiastically being recruited into the ranks of American law enforcement since the early 1980s.

* The second reason involves organizational convenience and protection: the .40's down-loaded ballistics (e.g., 180gns @ 950fps) more easily allow said nonshooters to pass their annual or semi-annual firearms qualifications, thus protecting their LE agency or department from liability ("it must be great training, everybody passed") and from having to increase the ammo budget and range time for training and re-quals by those failing the first time around, as was the case when a 10mm or .45acp was issued.

In reality, increasing the probability of a one-shot stop, even if such a thing quantifiably existed, was not the reason the .40S&W came into being.

 

[9mmhpfan]

I like both the 9mm and the 40.S&W they are both great rounds.

I am not sure any weapon that is small enough to be concealable on your person is going to be powerful enough to stop someone bent on doing you harm.

Your attacker may be high on any number drugs or whiskey all at the same time. These folks nerverous systems might not register a hit soon enough to prevent them from doing damage to you. Everybody has heard of how poor a manstopper the 38.Colt was against the Moros. Not everyone knows that the 30-40 Krag round often would not stop the Moros before they could do any damage. The .45 Long Colt also at times failed to stop the Moros as well. These tough little guys were dedicated and often so high on drugs when they attacked nothing short of a 155mm to the chest would have stopped them.

The 9mm and 40 are two good examples of defensive rounds that will work for the average citizen

 

[they call me bob]

i never said anything about the 10mm it is superior to the 40 and the 9, if we were talking about the debate over the best autoloader cartridge streghtwise the debate would probably be between the 10mm and the 45

personally i like the 10mm over all the other ones but alot of people cant handle the 10mm i mean people complain about the 40 which aint really much the 10mm is badass