Defensive ammo: max velocity or max accuracy?

[Ala Dan]

Dave, I'm an accuracy guy, myself. Regardless of the
situation, I want the very best accuracy that is possible
from a given firearm. In my way of thinking, if a round is on
target and terminates the threat; well, thats better than a
round traveling 1400 fps that miss'es, and could ultimately
allow the BG to return fire!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[sm]

Reliability

IIRC the Keltec P-11 was "designed" to work best with 115 grainers.

I use a Keltec P-11 as a niche gun. I have shot this gun quite a bit because asked to do T&E ( read : try it out, wring it out and try to tear it up )

I was consistenly hitting the 4" steel plate at 25 yds. I was putting all 11 rds in a playing card drawing from concealed, 7- 10 yds. First shot from buzzer to target in .8 seconds. Shot to shot times were a little better with 115 grainers.

Now that load "scoop powder from a matchbox and stick a bullet in it"... little "thumpy" with 147 grainers...124 was better.

Of course I'm the idiot trying to see how many times I could hit the 7" steel at 40 yds w/o missing. NO rest , got tired of standing and sat in the back of the truck.
All in the name of research of course. Side bet spurred me on.

 

[444]

So, since this thread is still around, what did you decide Dave ?


Couple observations: In the real world, I would be real surprised if any of this matters. Neither load is inaccurate or accurate enough to make a big difference in performance. The difference in "power" between the hot load and the mild load isn't probably enough to make a difference in a defensive shooting.
Reliability: You didn't mention having reliability problems, so I assume there wern't any: the choice was between accuracy and velocity.
Accuracy: Let's not take this to an extreme. We arn't talking about a load that is so inaccurate that it would be possible to miss a human at close range due to the inaccuracy of the ammunition.
I will tell you what, everyone take out their defensive loads and test them. Target is a silhouette. All drills start from a concealed holster. Stage 1) At the buzzer, draw and fire the entire magazine while moving laterally from left to right . Repeat right to left. Do this at various ranges. At no time are you to stop moving. Stage 2) Get behind cover so you are on your knees and firing around a strong side corner while remaining mostly behind cover. Target turns and faces you at random intervals exposing itself for 1.5 seconds before turning away. Stage 3) At the sound of the buzzer, retreat away from the target while firing. All stages are to be fired as rapidly as possible. Good hits are essential, but only if you make them before your adversary gets his shot off at you.
When you finish, give me your group size in inches. Try this with several different loads and find out which one is markedly more accurate.

 

[Mike Irwin]

whoops. Caught this one on the first go around.

 

[Dave R]

444, I must confess I haven't decided. I have been loading and shooting my "plinking load". Have some brass primed for the next round of defensive loadings, but have not decided yet.

You description of doing exercises with both loads kinda gives things a different perspective. I believe I would shoot your exercise better with the milder load. Maybe that's the way to go.

Reliability has not been an issue. Both loads have been reliable.

 

[444]

Dave, the point of the drills was to illustrate a point. When shooting on the move, at a target that is on the move with the goal of shooting center of mass, the differences in these groups don't matter. Group size is a matter of benchrest shooting. You are looking for a defensive load.
I submit that if tried those drills with both loads, you would never be able to tell the difference in the accuracy of the load.
Recoil might be a factor, but accuracy is a non-issue (within the bounds that you provided in your posts).

 

[Frohickey]

Well... it depends.

What are you defending yourself against.
I would pick Max Accuracy, since in self-defense scenario against two-legged animals, in stressful situations, you would want your tightest group size because that is gonna increase. Besides, two legged animals are not that well-armored, so you don't need Max Velocity.

If you are defending yourself against four-legged animals, then I would pig Max Velocity, or more applicable, Max Penetration. Four-legged animals can be well-armored, kill zone on a bear is pretty small.