defensive load for an apt

[W.E.G.]

If you shoot somebody between the shirt pockets with a 12 gauge shotgun, at inside-the-house distances, one shot will put them down for good, no matter what shot size you choose. I would expect even rubber buckshot to be lethal if fired at the head, or fired inside the 9-ring, at inside-the-bedroom distances.

 

[Sam1911]

I would expect even rubber buckshot to be lethal if fired at the head, or fired inside the 9-ring, at inside-the-bedroom distances.

A very good argument against any use of "non-lethal" shotshells for defensive purposes.

If you shoot somebody between the shirt pockets with a 12 gauge shotgun, at inside-the-house distances, one shot [strike]will[/strike] could put them down for good, no matter what shot size you choose.

Yup! It's getting them to pose for the "shirt pockets" shot that's the tough part. The rude SOGs tendency to dodge, duck, obstruct the shot with appendages and carried objects, wear tough-to-penetrate clothing, and otherwise muddle with your proven shot arrangement indicates that a smart defender chooses something on the more effective end of the spectrum.

 

[Purgatory]

Just my opine.

Here are some brain snacks.

http://www.shadonet.com/?p=14

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/aug/07/man-heard-shots-then-is-wounded-by-birdshot-in/

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=198912&hilit=birdshot&start=60

P.S. Remember: Even if birdshot hits a body while still in it's wadding, it's NOT the weight of the mass of the birdshot that does the penetrating. It's the weight of each individual pellet. A slug will not give way much on impact and will penetrate until the structure it's impacted slows it down. But a mass of birdshot will just spread out upon impact causing MUCH less penetration.

 

[geologist]

We live in a 3 storey house on a half acre city lot. I keep OO buck available for our bedroom shotgun, a 14" pump with modified choke. Spread at 5 yards, 5". Longest shot down our upstairs hallway would be 10 yards where the spread would be ~10".

 

[45crittergitter]

Keep in mind that the typical buckshot load will penetrate 4 or 5 typical double walls.

 

[Jeff F]

I believe in buckshot or slugs for any kind of a social situation. I live in the country so it's 00 buck in the mag and slugs on the gun for selective loading if the situation warrants. If I lived in an apartment and concerned about over penetration I would probably use # 1 or #4 buck in a low recoil load. If you want to go smaller then that the next size down in lead is BB if you can find any. It's a deadly coyote load out to fifty yards but I don't know if I'd trust my life to it.

 

[Waywatcher]

I choose BB, #1 and #2 "birdshot" would be good too. But "birdshot" and "buckshot" are arbitrary names to pellet diameters.

.18 is BB and it's "birdshot"
.20 is T and it's "buckshot"

Al LaVodka has a good pic of performance.

 

[Jeff F]

.18 is BB and it's "birdshot"
.20 is T and it's "buckshot"

I believe T is also bird shot and is steel shot. I have used it before hunting geese and was not impressed with its performance, lead # 2's worked way better back when it could be used.

 

[hammerklavier]

My go to is my XD40 and I carry it every day, but if I'm not home the go to for my wife is the shotgun. She knows what she is doing, but at the same time the people on the other side of the walls will always be on the back of our minds. I am just trying to minimize the risk and am seeking advice on how to do that.

So you're going to need to compromise. Load the first round or two as birdshot #4, or larger, then let the remaining rounds be 00 buckshot.

 

[mljdeckard]

When I lived in an apartment, you know what my strategy for an effective load was? Move into a house. which I did.

In a house, you know where everyone is sleeping. In apartment, you don't know where everyone is sleeping past those walls. Others summed it up. If it's worth carrying, it will penetrate walls.

 

[broken]

i keep some buckshot and slugs around for hunting,but me and my uncle seen what federal,3 1/4 dram 7.5,1 oz shot game shock,did out of a m500 mossberg with a cylinder bore 18.5 barrell on some slabs of wood,it suprised me and him,up close and farther out it was a shredder,good patterns,destroying the hardwood,damage spread out as we walked back but if it was all i had, it would do the job for an apartment.

 

[45crittergitter]

T, BB, F, etc. are not buckshot sizes they are just sizes. Buckshot always has a number (numeral), not a letter. The term buckshot is used to distinguish between it and the same numbered birdshot load, that is not the same size shot. For instance, #4 buckshot is 0.24" while #4 birdshot is 0.13".

Cabela's has had some 3" 12ga. lead BB shot loads for 1/2 price lately.

Broken, that info would be more helpful if we knew the shot size.

 

[Armored farmer]

Thank you W.E.G.......
+1
Well said.

 

[Jason_W]

Does any statistical data exist on the results of real life birdshot wounds? The only real way to get an idea of its potential as a defensive load would be to look at the percentage of attacks stopped by its use.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Here is some really good information about this.

 

[Mags]

#4 Buchshot

 

[Jason_W]

Here is some really good information about this.

The problem I have with that test is only one kind of birdshot was tried, a light dove/quail load. There is a huge difference between light #8 shot, and a heavy load of size BB or F shot. My own tests have show that Federal size BB black cloud will clear 12" of gel, and size F hardened shot will penetrate as much as 00 buck and leave a wider area of destroyed material.

 

[trol79]

Mmh.. in germany anything bigger as #1 birdshot (4,2mm) counts as buckshot. Buckshot is not allowed for hunting bit you can buy it legal if you have license for a shotgun. I rember it IPSC_shotguncompetitions having buckshot-disciplines.

 

[Ret.CWO]

Simply put #6 HiBrass 12 or 20

 

[Waywatcher]

My numbers were a bit off, but the point remains:

0.23 is classified Birdshot
0.24 is classified Buckshot

0.01" is a fine line.

Even stanger still is that it seems anything larger than #4 (0.13) birdshot needs to be produced by the buckshot manufacturing method. (e.g. not a shot tower)

So does that make anything larger than 0.13 "Buckshot" in a manufacturing sense?

I would stay away from the really small pellets and stay away from the really big pellets.

I would recommend something in the range of #1 "bird" to #1 "buck". 0.16-0.30" diameter

 

[VBurd2128]

Here is some really good information about this.

This is good, I just wish they used different kinds.

 

[Youngster]

#4 buckshot, go out and actually test it yourself against various media and you might find it's as low on the penetration scale as you'll ever want to go.

If full power #4B is still thought to be too much there's always reduced recoil #4 buck.

 

[Smitty in CT]

Mythbusters tested the Buckshot vs. Birdshot myth and the birdshot was not lethal.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzVAnRWfweU

 

[Waywatcher]

The problem with the Box 'o' Truth and Mythbusters is that they both tested very small shot, around number 8 (0.09 inch diameter)

And then they both compared it to the other side of the spectrum OO buck, (0.33 inch diameter)

Ballistic Gelatin testing http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

Lead BB penetrated about 11" average (~50 pellets per ounce)
#4 Buck penetrated about 15" average (~20 pellets per ounce)
#1 Buck penetrated about 17" average (~11 pellets per ounce)
00 Buck penetrated about 20" average (~8 pellets per ounce)

Measure some human torsos from different angles and make your own decision. Keep in mind that heart/lungs are usually going to be somewhere in the middle.

I feel more holes is better than less, and the smaller the pellet the less it will overpenetrate walls, etc.

 

[Youngster]

Gelatin is equivalent to a skinless, boneless chunk of relaxed muscle tissue, it's a lot easier on projectiles than just about anything else you can expect to hit. I've done a lot of various media testing and found that smaller shot especially often don't penetrate anywhere near as far as they do in these gelatin tests because the pellets get so chewed up after impact.