Defensive Shotgun Sights
- Thread starter MtnCreek
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Jason_W
Member
Probably no one. That said, a "HD" shotgun doesn't necessarily have to fill only one role. Some "tactical" or "defensive" shotguns also make excellent turkey or brush deer guns.
Also, during a period of civil unrest or following a disaster when a fight could potentially extend beyond the walls of a dwelling, I'd prefer a better sight than a bead.
Gordon
Member
all you who think pointing a shotgun to save your or others lives is gonna all ways be the right choice have never taken a Lewis Awerbuck (RIP) course and graduated with the required head shot on his mover bobber target system from 15 or less yards. Sure I been bird shooting for 50+ years with a bead and yes on a well fitting gun it is not concentrated on. Defensive shooting is different and if you just want to get lead into the perp from less than 50 feet and screw the background situation go ahead and point the bead, which you won't do under pressure anyway unless you have trained. Just saying and those who have seen the elephant frequently know what I am about. Why do you think modern police shotguns have rifle sights? Hmmmmmmm.
kBob
Member
nugun55,
No halls, but from the back door to the round pen in the pasture where something might be harassing our horse would be a 100 yard shot. While I might have a hard time justifying a shot on a human at that range, I might be justified in taking a shot at a dangerous animal with a slug that far.
-kBob
No halls, but from the back door to the round pen in the pasture where something might be harassing our horse would be a 100 yard shot. While I might have a hard time justifying a shot on a human at that range, I might be justified in taking a shot at a dangerous animal with a slug that far.
-kBob
Kbob,
The OP's question was concerning Home Defense. To most, that would be within the confines of the abode. Your's is a completely different situation. In the middle of the night, when your half asleep and a window or door breaks, you'll do well to remember the weapon, let alone sights.
The OP's question was concerning Home Defense. To most, that would be within the confines of the abode. Your's is a completely different situation. In the middle of the night, when your half asleep and a window or door breaks, you'll do well to remember the weapon, let alone sights.
Sav .250
Member
As some have noted, About the only time you "aim'" a shotgun is when your deer /hog,etc hunting.
Defensive ..................close quarters, point and pull. Don`t forget they are called a "scatter-gun" for a reason.
Defensive ..................close quarters, point and pull. Don`t forget they are called a "scatter-gun" for a reason.
lemaymiami
Member
All I want or need on a defensive shotgun is a simple bead sight and a sling. Since I carried and used (on one occasion) one on the street for many years I long ago learned the value of each item. For me that shotgun was going to be used at 15 meters or less...
rbernie
Contributing Member
Nothing says that you can't run rifle sights on a defense gun and shoot it like a regular shotgun. That's how my 870s and M2s are set up. My point was that rifle sights won't help if the gun doesn't fit and doesn't shoot where you look.
oneounceload
member
True it can be used for more things; and for those things add your sights, etc., but for HD, take them off
If it comes down to civil unrest, you are better served by an AR and 30 round mags, especially if you are talking long range
MCgunner
Member
Meh, gimme my 1/2 MOA scoped .257 Roberts, but that's another discussion entirely.
I've never "seen the elephant", but simple home defense is not warfare nor elephant hunting. BTW, don't most military shotguns have a bead? Of course, now days, they all seem to have breaching attachments on the barrel, another useless military add on.
herrwalther
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MCgunner said:
Military 590A1 has a bead sight. And that is giving it too much credit. Most of the time the bead sight is so small it looks more like an imperfection in the metal than a sight. I rarely see them with breaching attachments either. 95% of the time a shotgun in a military unit is a breaching tool or an "extra" firearm to issue to a friendly civilian, interpreter, or contractor.
Jason_W
Member
It ultimately comes down to the preference of the individual. When I had a shotgun with a ghost ring setup, I never had any trouble hitting targets at across the room distances by simply looking over the top of the rear sight and putting the post on the center of my target.
I even knocked down a flying grouse or two using that method. But, that's me and what I was fine with.
As for effective range: With a slug, it's no big thing to hit a man sized target out to 100 yards or so.
X-Rap
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I'd prefer the best sights available. Sure at hallway distances I can male an old Stevens with a chopped barrel do the job but that ends the versatility of that gun. I'll take rifle or ghost ring any day and don't believe it would be an impediment in HD
MCgunner
Member
Frankly, if the gun fits, I don't need a bead. A rib does help, but isn't necessary, either.
oneounceload
member
An AR has less penetration through walls than buckshot and is easier for many folks who are of smaller stature, etc. to handle so your observation is sound
Zach S
Member
I prefer a bead. Its sufficient for "home defense" distances, and beyond. I dont hunt, so sporting purposes don't apply.
Yes, I need to see the bead, and also rely on a proper grip and cheek weld. The addition of a surefire forend, recently upgraded with a Malkoff lamp helps.
I don't have a sling on mine, but do have an HK claw style single point sling, and a loop for it. A single point isn't my prefered type of sling, but since my shotgun rarely has a sling, its what I use. I dont want to try to rack it after grabbing the sling as well as the fore end. Again...
Yes, I need to see the bead, and also rely on a proper grip and cheek weld. The addition of a surefire forend, recently upgraded with a Malkoff lamp helps.
I don't have a sling on mine, but do have an HK claw style single point sling, and a loop for it. A single point isn't my prefered type of sling, but since my shotgun rarely has a sling, its what I use. I dont want to try to rack it after grabbing the sling as well as the fore end. Again...
I prefer a vent rib and single bead sight system. That is the durable solidly constructed vent rib as found on Remington 870 shotguns. As a shotgunner first, I find the Bead on a Flat ( o ) sight picture of a vent rib to be the lowest to the bore, and the fastest to use with precision - with proper stock fit of course. The eye naturally centers the bead and the flat top of the rib gives a solid index of elevation.
Before someone chimes in that no short vent rib barrels are available, any vent rib 870 field barrel can be easily shortened to 18 3/4" and refitted with bead and choke tube (Mike Orlen does excellent work at very reasonable prices). And yes, choke tubes a needed item to achieve the tight patterns I deem necessary for both hunting and defensive use - Flite Control loads notwithstanding. This holds true regardless of whether each buckshot pellet weighs 20 grains or 3/4 of an ounce.
Before someone chimes in that no short vent rib barrels are available, any vent rib 870 field barrel can be easily shortened to 18 3/4" and refitted with bead and choke tube (Mike Orlen does excellent work at very reasonable prices). And yes, choke tubes a needed item to achieve the tight patterns I deem necessary for both hunting and defensive use - Flite Control loads notwithstanding. This holds true regardless of whether each buckshot pellet weighs 20 grains or 3/4 of an ounce.
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MCgunner
Member
20" turkey barrels should be available.
LeonCarr
Member
IMO/IME for hunting use choke tubes are great. In a correctly trained with tactical shotgun, rapid fire shooting of buckshot and slugs coupled with a carbon steel barrel and usually stainless steel choke tube with different expansion ratios, increases the chances of a choke tube seizing up requiring brute force, choke tube damage, or barrel damage to remove, a choke tube going down range with the buckshot or slug, or a loose choke tube that could contribute to a barrel bursting at the muzzle, keep me using fixed chokes in my tactical shotguns.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
I prefer rifle sights. They're versatile. My 870 HD shotgun has a remchoked rifle sighted deer barrel with an improved cylinder choke tube on it. At close range I can simply use the front sight and hit what's aimed at. Realistically a 12 ga slug out of a smooth bore barrel is only accurate out to 150 yds. Anything past that takes a lot of optimism and/or a sense of humor. With this shotgun setup I can take this same shotgun and use it for hunting deer and wild boar out in the woods. If you do your part and maintain proper sight alignment with the rifle sights, hitting these critters within this range is possible.
Yes, however I was "thinking 870" and those 12 gauge turkey guns run 21", (23" for the Super Mag version).
The 18 3/4" length takes in into account 870 vent rib post spacing. The 20 gauge 870 Jr. is available with an 18 3/4" barrel out of the box - but would most likely require another stock to replace the 12" or so LOP of the OEM stock. The 18 3/4" 20 gauge Vent Rib/RemChoke barrel is also available as an extra barrel from Remington.
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Just how many rounds in fired in quick succession would it take to build up the barrel heat needed for that kind of catastrophic damage to occur?
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
I have two 870 Wingmasters that also serve in home defense roles (because two is one, and one is none) and as such they are fitted with 18.5" barrels. One barrel is blued, no rib, has a brass bead. The other is a "Fred Fuller Special" (MOD-choke, smoothbore, Tritium rifle sights). I won't advertise exactly *where* each gun is placed at the ready, but, you get the idea... And, as another High Roader mentioned, we too have enough ambient light that I don't require a weapon light.
The 870 fits me very well. The gun comes to my eye, not the other way around. I like the Tritium inserts in the MOD-choked barrel's rifle-sight-posts but the cylinder-bore (no choke) brass bead is easily aimed too. I'll "point" my shotgun when shooting wing or clay but I "aim" my shotguns when using buck or slugs.
Regarding the "scattergun" comment: it is wise to pattern one's barrel and load. It is quite! surprising to see how little spread exists at HD ranges which should be no more than 5 or 10 FEET. If you're taking longer shots, the threat to you of death or grave bodily harm would be difficult to support in a court of law... and we WILL appear in court should we survive the encounter.
I feel I should add here that while I will do everything to avoid! having to pull the trigger on a human target, it doesn't mean I should not train to defend myself.
I have become a fan of the Rhodesian-style shooting sling but on a shotgun in a HD role I don't use them. I have them on three of my rifles and have just ordered another for my shotguns for hunting (once adjusted and the excess trimmed away, each sling becomes specific for the firearm style and model). I use slings made by Andy's Leather.
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