DEL-TON, Spikes Tactical, etc....

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I dunno about DelTon cutting corners, I'm sure they do somewhere. But I shot my bud's non-chrome lined base model 16"er to half MOA over and over and over. And he's probably put about 1000 rounds thru it now without a hitch.

With Colts available for a grand that's the route I'd take. But if I only had $800 and not a dime more I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Spikes or DelTon AR, start saving for a free float handguard, re-stake the gas key, and rock dat @#&CH!
 
Lets all pause for a moment to enjoy a "why are these AR's so cheap?" thread.................................................................ahhhh. OK I feel better. :)
 
It isn't always about cutting corners. Managing costs and over head are a huge factor. There is a huge difference in the amount of fixed costs to run a company as large as Colt as compared to Del-Ton. Before anyone jumps all over this, I am not saying Del-Ton is, necessarily, the equivalent of Colt.

Business 101.
 
That's a good point. There is often an optimum size, and for something relatively simple like AR assembly it's probably fairly small. As you go bigger overhead and management will increase disproportionate to the products you're putting out, without any increase in quality or appeal. This is true in most businesses, perhaps all.
 
You'd be amazed at the amount of overhead required to do business with the US Gubment alone. Somebody has to pay those bills.
 
Hehe, as a lawyer I've "negotiated" contracts with government agencies (negotiation implies that you can actually make changes, which is rarely the case) and I probably wouldn't be surprised, I would just put another slip in the "cry later" jar. The average guy wouldn't believe how much red tape really does exist. If I gave you a complete, detailed and accurate description of the requirements for one relatively simple contract I represented a client with, you would think I was completely insane and hallucinating.
 
That is 100% correct; I speak from experience as someone who deals with federal contracting on a daily basis. The requirements for any contract are often excessively detailed, leading to huge acquisition costs for the gov't while forcing the contractor to greatly over-engineer a response without any guarantee that the good or service will actually work. The DoD alone has spent billions on enterprise IT systems that have never been delivered. Similar problems exist with hardware (see: F-35 Lightning II), including small arms. Once said contract is in place the requirements for reporting and contract maintenance, while well-intentioned, create a significant burden on the contactor to meet.
 
IMO Del-ton was a great buy! I love mine! Shoots great every time.

I paid $775 out the door and it came with a had case, cleaning kit, 5 30 round mags. 4 of those mags are cheap junk but, they do work.

I now have a BCM bolt, Eotech with the 3x zoom on it and a Mapul MOE hand gard.
 
Business 101 says you will charge a premium if you can build the reputation of your brand name and have it perceived as superior. Mercedes and Nike do that for a living. Please note, Mercedes cars still need repairs, Nike shoes still wear out. Be aware that for an incremental increase in quality, you net an exponential increase in profit when it's done right.

Then there is just plain old price gouging, Mercedes did that in the '80's so that Beverly Hills maids couldn't afford new ones. Really.

There is also the factor of buying in volume. If a CNC shop buys a thousand forged platters to make uppers, and Colt buys 400,000 platters for the M4 contract run, discounts will be different. Profit on a thousand platters might keep the place running in terms of weeks, 400,000 will keep a supplier running for years.

Quality control does figure in, the thousand platters may be marginally out of spec for Colt by a few thousandths. The TDP and government inspection may leave very little room for Colt to accept a thinner platter, they don't need the hassle, and get some respect as a major customer. A smaller buyer can use those, and the consumer would never see a difference in reliability or function. The smaller shop may or may not be able to keep the dimensions - AGP, for example, measures all the platters, then batches them in groups to get the machining right. Colt may not have the time or profit margin to measure every incoming platter - but as long as they are within their acceptance range, it doesn't make any difference.

As for certification that each and every part meets milspec standards, unless the individual gun has a handsigned package (even a copy for that production batch,) then regardless of everyone's assertion's, there is no documented paper trail to back it up. Milspec means putting down on paper the source of the parts and the results of the testing to standard, not just insisting it was done. Do you take a math test and not turn in the answers, expecting the teacher will just issue an A? Well, the makers do, and have gotten away with it for years. Only Colt and FN have had to do it lately, and the price is included in the contract. It's not cheap. Having worked at a defense contractor who makes batteries for DOD weapons, I know how many people worked on the actual batteries, and how many stamped paper, ran tests, or supervised them. And they get paid good money.

Does Spike's, BCM, Del-ton, etc have the overhead of Colt? Not nearly. Wall Street has even slapped down Colt's government branch with a lower rating, the end of the M4 seems near, and their future isn't as rosy as they try to consolidate debt. Maybe FN isn't doing so bad after all in sales. Whatever, the smaller companies have to deal with less, and that makes their profit margins OK to live on. They may not have multiple layers of long term management, or the higher costs of property taxes, or larger staffs of older, experienced workers with higher health care costs.

Boils down to Bus 101. Lower costs, more competitive attitude, really good marketing for the brand, you get money either with volume or price. Add the inflationary cost of marking up through at least one distributor and their profit, $200-300 is a reasonable price spread to see for equivalent products. One maker could have $50 higher in parts, the other $50 in overhead, and both actually dolly off the back dock at the same price. Add the MSRP game and marketing, you get to figure it out.

One stripped lower for $80, or a lower for $135? If you don't do the inspection, you never do know which is better. All you go on is word of mouth.
 
I really want to thank Azizza and everyone for the heads up on the Daniels/Smartgunner deal, and thank Z-Michigan for some great info.
 
spikes tactical complete rifles are going for $799, there was an article in SWAT a few months ago about the spikes rifle, it will answer all of your answers in there. I use spikes lowers on builds, and that is what i run with my BCM upper for my go to carbine.
 
I have a client who owns a distribution company, with channels in the firearm industry, and he told me that gun sales are down significantly, with the exception of the lower end.

It seems that the economy has wreaked havoc on certain demographics, and people are trading down in price.

I had a different client tell me the same thing about the boat and RV industry quite a few months back.

Both of these guys are as credible as they come.

I actually expect prices to decline further, and for manufacturers to cut production costs as much as possible, to get that price point down. They will really have an issue if the Keynesian madman, Ben Benanke, continues to blow massive bubbles in commodity markets via his use of POMO and Quantitative Easing, where he is begging investors to chase speculative yields in commodities (despite weak underlying demand) by driving down yields on fixed income and bond assets.
 
Interesting, JQP. I notice that BCM has been running its "summer sale" on uppers nonstop for about 6 months now, and that the smartgunner deal on DD uppers massively undercuts BCM-BFH uppers, even ones with less expensive rail systems.

I expect gun sales will rebound at some point when either (1) crime starts to go up noticeably or (2) there is some credible threat to ban more guns [seems unlikely for the next 2 years, but who knows].
 
I actually stopped by Spikes shop yesterday to pick up my lower. Lots of great hardware, friendly and knowledgable folks. People were in and out. Can't wait to shoot mine this weekend
 
spike tactical is very good, i build my first AR out of a CMMG in a spike's lower, i also own a YHM-15 for more serious shooting both great value. my favorite?...

Yankee Hill Machine


Spikes Tactical Lower/CMMG kit



in that order.
 
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Same thing as game companies do with consoles, they're attempting to saturate the market to get you to buy their product.

And their costs are low because 95% of their market is going to be weekend shooters who won't thrash their guns into oblivion. Their customers aren't going to sit in a hide in Cambodia for two weeks in the rain, or be laying suppressive fire for three days. :)
 
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