Democratic rule and gun rights cannot coexsist

[progunner1957]

In their desperate bid to return to power, we have Democrats whining, "For God's sake, the Democrats don't want to trick people into voting for something they don't want!!! They just want to represent the people!!!"

BULL FECES. What they want is POWER.

The Democrat party is controlled by socialists. To rise to the national level in the Democrat party, you must be a socialist and have a pedigree of socialist thought, action and voting.

The Democrat party wants socialist rule by autocratic means - in other words, the Democrat party wants absolute power with no accountability to We The People. This cannot be achieved with an armed citizenry who can resist arbitrary rule.

We can expect the national level Democrat candidates to attempt to portray themselves as gun friendly - like John Kerry did, parading and posing for the press in his never-before-worn duck hunter costume.

We can expect them to attempt to paint themselves as "moderates" and to try to run from their antigun/socialist history, as Hillary Clinton is so desperately trying to do at present.

We can expect them to join bogus "progun" organizations - but not true gun rights organizations, such as the NRA, GOA or Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, or to contribute real sums of money to these organizations.

Gun control, registration, banning and confiscation are the holy grail issues of the Democratic party - they are at the very core of the socialist political philosophy with which they are pathologically obsessed. Do not expect the Democratic party to TRULY forsake their holy grail.

You will sooner see a planeload of nuns head off to South Padre Island during spring break and star in a "Girls Gone Wild" video than you will see the national level Democrat party forsake gun control/registration/banning and the ultimate goal - confiscation.

 

[Maxwell]

I dont think its fair to lump Democrats in with the whims of a few who happen to be in the democratic leadership.
All things, in time, will pass. The self annointed power players who want a socialist system in america will jump from the democratic side of the fence, to the republican, and back as it suits them. Should a third party every take power, they will jump there too.
The point to remember is its not the party that has a problem, its the individuals.

The unfortunate side effect of media on politics has been overload.
People dont vote on basic rights (Speech, weapons, land ownership, fair trail) they now make their decisions on things like gay rights, abortion, and medicare... well, frankly, many communist nations have great medical treatment plans. Should they deem you worthy of more than a bullet to the head and a shallow grave, your life is in good hands. Gay rights is nifty, but Id rather have an honest judge. Those with alternative lifestyles will sooner find equality from a properly run justice system than from a politicians promise.
People spend so much time obcessing over the details, they forget the big picture.

I think if you want to stand more than a snowballs chance in hell of cleaning political house, youve got to stop voters from selling their soul for that "chicken in every pot". Theres more to life and government than what someone can give you, and more than the medias obcession du-jour.

The sooner you convince us masses that principles mean more than payoffs and sound bytes, the sooner you can drag the nation back to its central ideals.

 

[Fletchette]

I dont think its fair to lump Democrats in with the whims of a few who happen to be in the democratic leadership.

At some point it is fair. Individuals must be held accountable for the actions of the organizations they support. Sure, I do not hold all Democrats accountable for Klinton's extramartial affairs, but I do hold them accountable for actively supporting a party that has made open efforts to disarm the populace.

The only hope that I see for the nation is to systematically destroy the Democratic party. Then, the remnants of the Democtratic party will move to other parties. The socialists will become "Green Party" members, and many Southern Democrats will become Republicans (if they haven't already).

One-party political systems are inherently unstable, so in this time the smaller parties will vie for power and one will emerge as the counter to the Republican party.

It is my hope that at this point, many Libertarian-leaning Republicans could join with rights-minded former Democrats to swell the ranks of the Libertarian Party to make it a viable second party.

It won't be easy, and may never happen in reality, but I think that this is our best hope. Otherwise, we will have the two current parties racing each other to tyranny with the promises of utopia for their constituents.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

BULL FECES. What they want is POWER.

The Republican party is controlled by crooks. To rise to the national level in the Republican party, you must be a crook and have a pedigree of corrupt thought, action and voting.

The Republican party wants corporate rule by autocratic means - in other words, the Republican party wants absolute power with no accountability to We The People. This cannot be achieved with a voting citizenry who can resist arbitrary rule.

 

[Fletchette]

The Republican party is controlled by crooks. To rise to the national level in the Republican party, you must be a crook and have a pedigree of corrupt thought, action and voting.

The Republican party wants corporate rule by autocratic means - in other words, the Republican party wants absolute power with no accountability to We The People. This cannot be achieved with a voting citizenry who can resist arbitrary rule.

I agree that both parties are corrupt. That is why one must be destroyed so that another can take its place.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Bush and associates have pretty much abandoned all Republican ideals in exhange for power and control. If we get a Democrat in 2008, nothing but the motivation for control and power will change.

Its hard to choose between globalist corporate fascists, and leftist autocratic socialists. Decisions, decisions!

 

[Maxwell]

Neither party will self destruct anytime soon, for the same reasons. In the two party system your agenda dosnt stand a ghosts chance unless its attached to someone with a chance of winning, and the extremists know that. The parties will stick together like glue until something major changes.

I do hold them accountable for actively supporting a party that has made open efforts to disarm the populace.

Then republican supporters are responsable for their party not repealing the gun control laws already in place. Theyve had the time and influence, whats the hold up?
Put simply, its not a big enough interest to them.

Rights erosion is the fault of politicians who were elected for specific reasons but decided to push their own agendas.
Its on individuals, not the party.
I'd wager that when libertariens do get into major seats of power, many of them will behave the exact same way.

The better chance for RKBA is to convince politicians they can win on gun control if they at least ignore the left fringe cries for more of it. Stopping the erosion until gun rights groups can educate more of the public.
Convince the individuals and you spend less time chasing boogeymen.

 

[Fletchette]

Then republican supporters are responsable for their party not repealing the gun control laws already in place. Theyve had the time and influence, whats the hold up?
Put simply, its not a big enough interest to them.

This is my Number-One criticism of the Republican Party of today. The Republicans have no excuse for not producing a anti-gun-control-bill-a-week, just like the Democrats did (pro-gun-control-bill-a-week) throughout the 90's.

I am even more angry about the lack of effort to repeal gun control laws than I am about the national debt.

 

[Waitone]

I echo the sentiment that power is the goal. While it is gratifying to see Democrat party implode, I see bad mojo ahead with spinelessrepublicans at the helm. Seems to me both parties are on a power trip, both parties are without operating principals and both parties will do what it takes to gather power unto themselves. Democrats have made knows their view of RKBA. Spinelessrepublicans will tell you what you want to hear. I don't doubt for one Noo Yark minute that spinelessrepublicans would hesitate to turn on the pro-RKBA community if it would enhance its power. Firearms in the hands of Joe and Martha Sixpack represents power and the threat of the use of power. Both parties will ultimately react the same way. Civilians with firearms constitute a threat to the party's dominance.

 

[RealGun]

I think if you want to stand more than a snowballs chance in hell of cleaning political house, youve got to stop voters from selling their soul for that "chicken in every pot". Theres more to life and government than what someone can give you, and more than the medias obcession du-jour.

The sooner you convince us masses that principles mean more than payoffs and sound bytes, the sooner you can drag the nation back to its central ideals. - Maxwell

Well said, but this would require education, and guess where the teachers come down on the issue of government? I think it's better to keep hammering on judges for making stuff up. All this "evil" we perceive comes directly from the legal profession. And guess what philosophy pervades in law schools?

You might find a good candidate who seems to deserve your vote and confidence, but if that person gets to Washington, either the infection sets in, or the truth comes out. I would say the main thing is to keep them moving. Do not support an incumbent beyond about two terms.

 

[Baron Holbach4]

Quote:
Then republican supporters are responsable for their party not repealing the gun control laws already in place. Theyve had the time and influence, whats the hold up?
Put simply, its not a big enough interest to them.


This is my Number-One criticism of the Republican Party of today. The Republicans have no excuse for not producing a anti-gun-control-bill-a-week, just like the Democrats did (pro-gun-control-bill-a-week) throughout the 90's.

I am even more angry about the lack of effort to repeal gun control laws than I am about the national debt.

The hold up is how the Democrats and Republicans fight like vultures over how to divide the taxpayers' spoils, i.e., the public pie. Nowadays, and it has been going on for several decades, politicians demagogue over who is the better candidate for carving out each state's share of the public pie. Furthermore, corporate and special interests lobby their representatives to pass or not to pass laws and regulations promoting the welfare of the corporations and special interests. These kinds of institutionalized political arrangements have become so imbedded in America's political culture that the resulting offshoot -- massive corruption -- is glossed over with the excuse that such arrangements are defended by the First Amendment. This is the slippery slope towards tyranny.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Democrats, like Republicans, consist mostly of people who want power.

They are willing to promise whatever they need to promise to the people they can convince to vote for them. Mostly, that means giving them things and money at government expense. This happens to coincide with Socialism.

That's about all there is to that one. If you think there's some kind of dark, secret Order of the Socialist Serpents in the Democrat party, think again. They use some of the features of Socialism to get elected, and so do Republicans.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

BULL FECES. What they want is POWER.

The Republican party is controlled by crooks. To rise to the national level in the Republican party, you must be a crook and have a pedigree of corrupt thought, action and voting.

The Republican party wants corporate rule by autocratic means - in other words, the Republican party wants absolute power with no accountability to We The People. This cannot be achieved with a voting citizenry who can resist arbitrary rule.
__________________


Well put, well put Malone Laveigh. I don't like the infringements of either party. I also believe that a state ruled by corporations (something which happens either Democrat or Rebuttplican) is just as dangerous to liberty as a coup d'etat.

That being said, I still believe we cannot lump all Democrats as anti-gun or all Republicans as pro-corporate state. National level even.

Look, if the right Southern Democrat gets in, we simply will see no gun legislation. If Clinton gets in, all bets are off.

But, Republicans are no guarantee on gun rights. If they were, the original Assault Weapons Ban would have been repealed. GCA '68 would have been gutted, and seriously amended so that getting an FFL is alot easier, and about the only thing you can't do is get a gun through mail order.

But, this stuff didn't happen. Fear of what the anti-rights (not having to do with the press) media might say about such repeals was never addressed. Back in his day, Nixon said he wanted to ban all pistols and register all hunting rifles.

All I'm saying is guns are a separate issue. I personally believe that the Democratic candidate has to promise and deliver on a gun issue b/f I trust it. That being said, who in the Republican camp can give me as good an offer? Anyone? Who's even gonna run for them? Are they gonna repeal the Patriot Act? Are they gonna seal the border with Mexico? Huh. I hear massive silence from the Republican Party on massive issues to the non-religious right base of the party, and I think the Republicans need to ask "Quo Vadimus?" Where are we going?

 

[Kim]

I agree that Democrats and gun banning go together and can not be separated. And it is because of their deeper socialist beliefs. Some people are just socialists period. How that is is hard for me to understand but hey they believe it as a religious dogma. Sorry I am a Capitalist. Why you ask. It provides the most individual freedom. Is it perfect no of coarse not but I would rather be free than live unfree in a socialist system. I refuse to sell my freedom for rent, health care, food, SS, Medicare or Medicaid. But I am a rare bird. Most people in this country like to be taken care of or like the idea of the so called safety net. It makes them FEEL good. But they do not realize what they give up for that feeling. Most are incapable of living FREE. Socialism makes people weak not strong. It enslaves people. It is a false sense of safety. How do I not get so upset most of the time since I am forced to be part of this system. I just grin and realize that the taxes I pay is nothing but a cheap price to pay to allow those who want to enslave themselve the opportunity to do so and allow the rest to aspire to their pursuit of happiness. It give them just enough so they leave the rest of us alone. I pity them. They have built their own prision.

 

[Soybomb]

Blah blah blah Democrat left nazi socialist.

The republican party is just as eager for power to legislate people's lives and behavors as the democratic. Instead of guns in the livingroom its gays in the bedroom. Its like spam and spam lite. No matter how different they claim to be, its mostly the same thing and they both taste like crap.

 

[Baron Holbach4]

What happens to a democracy when a majority votes for candidates who favor gun control?

 

[1911JMB]

Granted, Democrats are with a few important exceptions anti-gun dirtbags with many other faults, and I hate them for it. But Democrats as a group are not the power seekers you make them out to be, at least not in comparison to Republicans, and especially the Bush Administration. The Bush bunch always grabs power by attempting to scare the bulk of the US citizenry into submission. Consider these actions taken by the Bush administration:

-After making most people believe sadams shattered shell of an Iraqi military was an imminent threat, he invaded Iraq, all the while reminding us that we needed duct tape and plastic wrap for our windows.

-He has given hundreds of billions of dollars that should have stayed in our wallets to his oil buddy's and other war contractors. We will continue to pay the debt he has caused for years to come. Bush claimed we needed to do a pre emptive strike against Iraq to prevent terrorist attacks. Its estimated that over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed so far as a result of this war, and thats more than all deaths from all international terrorist attacks combined.

-He has allowed warrantless wire taps on international phone calls, and recently its been reported that war protesters are being spied on.

-He has taken no actions to reduce gas prices, or to provide funding for alternative fuel source research. And its an interesting observation that gas prices, at least in most states never went above 2.30 per gallon until Bush won again in 2004. If thats not working together with big oil I don't know what is.

Actually, Bush himself is not a power seeker, he is a moronic puppet, who like all presidents from the recent past was groomed from a young age to become president so he could be used by many greed ridden corporations to make billions of our hard earned tax dollars.

You mentioned accountability from we the people. We the people are apathetic loosers who will put up with anything. I always wonder what the breaking point will be, that is, what will cause great anger and frustration among the US population to the point that we the people will get up off our asses and actually do something to stop this absurd oppression. French workers are currently in the proccess of protesting a labor law, and it apears to be scaring the French government. Such actions seem to be a mystery to Americans in this day and age. Like that supid V for Vendetta guy says, the government should be afraid of the people, and instead our government is laughing at us.

 

[Baron Holbach4]

We the people are apathetic loosers who will put up with anything. I always wonder what the breaking point will be, that is, what will cause great anger and frustration among the US population to the point that we the people will get up off our asses and actually do something to stop this absurd oppression. French workers are currently in the proccess of protesting a labor law, and it apears to be scaring the French government. Such actions seem to be a mystery to Americans in this day and age. Like that supid V for Vendetta guy says, the government should be afraid of the people, and instead our government is laughing at us.

A quote, often unattributable or verifiable, but nevertheless pertinent:

According to Arnold Toynbee, there are nine steps to the rise and fall of a civilization: "The release of initiative and enterprise made possible by self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again, after freedom brings opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury loving and complacent; the incompetent and unfortunate grow envious and covetous; and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the golden calf of economic security. The historical cycle seems to be: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more."

http://www.fluxneo.com/llbarnhart/despotism.htm

 

[Henry Bowman]

What happens to a democracy when a majority votes for candidates who favor gun control?

Fortunately, we do not live in a democracy. We have a republican form of government in which the Constitution protects a minority from having its rights voted away by a simple (minded) majority. This is not a perfect system, however. In fact the is the worst system in the world, except for all the others.

 

[Baron Holbach4]

Fortunately, we do not live in a democracy. We have a republican form of government in which the Constitution protects a minority from having its rights voted away by a simple (minded) majority. This is not a perfect system, however. In fact the is the worst system in the world, except for all the others.

Yes, America's form of government is still a republic, but only by a very thin thread. Once the Electoral College system is abolished will America's form of government still be a republic?

 

[HankB]

The Republican party is controlled by crooks. . . .

The difference is, I DO hear and read well deserved criticism - much of it quite vehement - of the GOP by conservatives who have historically been quite strongly identified with the GOP. Even stalwarts like Gingrich, Hannity, Coulter, Malkin, Ron Paul, even Limbaugh on occasion are finding plenty to find fault with.

On the other hand, when Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, or Hillary Clinton sound off, the comparative silence from Democrats is telling . . . and that silence is usually broken only to complain that some of these folks are still too conservative, which was the gist of Susan Sarandon's recent remarks about Hillary.

 

[hugh damright]

Once the Electoral College system is abolished will America's form of government still be a republic?

It seems to me as though eliminating the EC would turn the US into more of a Republic, not less of one. Isn't a republican form of government a popular government with representatives elected by a popular vote? The thing is, each State has a republican form of government, but the US, although republican in nature, is not a simple republic. To me the question would be "Once the Electoral College system is abolished will America's form of government still be a federal system?".

What happens to a democracy when a majority votes for candidates who favor gun control?

I think that it depends on what you mean by "gun control". For instance, if a State banned CCW, then I don't see how than would be the end of a democratic or republican form of government. But if a free State/People disarmed everyone but the police/military, then, assuming the Second Amendment rings true ... their days as a free State/People are numbered, because they would have given up something that is necessary to the security of free government.

 

[Fletchette]

Quote:
Once the Electoral College system is abolished will America's form of government still be a republic?

It seems to me as though eliminating the EC would turn the US into more of a Republic, not less of one. Isn't a republican form of government a popular government with representatives elected by a popular vote? The thing is, each State has a republican form of government, but the US, although republican in nature, is not a simple republic. To me the question would be "Once the Electoral College system is abolished will America's form of government still be a federal system?".

Hillary publicly floated the idea of abolishing the electoral college and going to a direct-vote democracy after the 2000 election. She said the electoral college was "obsolete".

If we have a direct-vote democracy, national elections will be decided by the top five cities in the U.S. Tyranny of the majority exemplified.

I'll keep my obsolete electoral college, my obsolete firearms, and my obsolete Constitution, thank you very much.