Dem's view on the 2nd Amendment: Repeal it.

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Justin

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THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
Note: This article appears in the magazine The New Republic, a publication that is to the Democrats and the left as The National Review is to Republicans and the right.

Ditch the Second Amendment.
Gun Shy
by Benjamin Wittes

The New York Times editorial page accused the appeals court panel that on March 9 struck down portions of Washington, D.C.'s ultra-strict gun-control law of storming "blithely past a longstanding Supreme Court precedent, the language of the Constitution and the pressing needs of public safety." My former colleagues at the Washington Post described the decision as a "radical ruling" that "will inevitably mean more people killed and wounded as keeping guns out of the city becomes harder."

It's not hard to see where the anger comes from. The two-to-one decision by the famously conservative Judge Laurence Silberman is, indeed, radical. Consider the following:

• The "central object" of the Second Amendment "is to arm 'We the People' so that ordinary citizens can participate in the collective defense of their community and their state. ... [T]he amendment achieves its central purpose by assuring that the federal government may not disarm individual citizens without some unusually strong justification. ... That assurance in turn is provided through recognizing a right ... on the part of individuals to possess and use firearms in defense of themselves and their homes."


• "For too long, most members of the legal academy have treated the Second Amendment as the equivalent of an embarrassing relative, whose mention brings a quick change of subject to other, more respectable, family members. That will no longer do. It is time for the Second Amendment to enter full scale into the consciousness of the legal academy."

• While at the Founding, the Second Amendment may have embodied a "collective" right, after the Civil War amendments, the constitutional landscape changed dramatically, and "gun-toting was individualistic, accentuating not group rights of the citizenry but self-regarding 'privileges' of discrete 'citizens' to individual self-protection."

Radical stuff, indeed. But there's a big problem with blasting Silberman for entertaining the notion that the people's right to "keep and bear arms" may actually include an individual right to, well, keep or bear a gun in the District of Columbia: None of these words actually come from his opinion. All, in fact, were written by esteemed liberal law professors.

The first is from Laurence Tribe's famed treatise on the Constitution, the latest version of which Tribe altered in recognition of the growing power of the individual-rights view of the amendment--a view he had long rejected. The second is by Sanford Levinson, who--before he stopped believing in the Constitution altogether--wrote an illuminating law review article called "the embarrassing second amendment." The final quotation is from Akhil Reed Amar's ambitious history, The Bill of Rights. One can still muster strong arguments in favor of a collective-rights conception of the Second Amendment, the view that has prevailed in most other circuits; and the individual-rights view does not necessarily doom all gun control (though it probably does doom the most sweeping bans). But the simple truth is that the individual-rights view is in intellectual ascendancy, and not just among gun-loving wing nuts. If Silberman is a radical with blithe disregard for public safety, he is in exceptionally strong company.

It's time for gun-control supporters to come to grips with the fact that the amendment actually means something in contemporary society. For which reason, I hereby advance a modest proposal: Let's repeal the damned thing.

This seems to me the right response to the amendment no matter which broad historical interpretation is correct. If, in fact, the amendment embodies only a collective right and the right to keep guns is indelibly linked to membership in the old militias--institutions that no longer exist--the amendment is already a dead letter. Repealing it would be then a simple matter of constitutional hygiene, the removal of a constitutional provision that has no function now nor could in the future but that, by its language, encourages the belief in an armed citizenry that I, for one, do not wish to see.

If, on the other hand, the amendment really does as Silberman, Tribe, Amar, and Levinson essentially claim--and I suspect they are all more right than wrong--then it embodies values in which I don't believe. I grew up obsessively shooting .22 caliber target rifles at summer camp in the Adirondacks. I like guns well enough in rural areas. I don't like them in cities. I don't believe that the Constitution ought to prevent my hometown of Washington, D.C.--which has a serious problem with gun violence--from making a profoundly different judgment about how available handguns should be than the New York legislature would make for the hamlet near my old camp. Guns, in other words, present a legitimate policy question on which different jurisdictions should take very different approaches--including, in some areas, outright bans.

There are lots of good reasons why our values today might not coincide with those of the Founders on the question of guns. The weapons available today, for one thing, are a far cry from muskets, which could never have yielded the kind of street violence America sees routinely now. On a more esoteric level, the Second Amendment's protection for militias reflected the importance the Founders attached to an armed citizenry as a protection against tyrannical government. This made sense at the time. The Founders had a lot of experience with oppressive rulers and little idea whether the constitutional order they were setting up would remain free; maybe they would need to overthrow it sometime. After more than two centuries of constitutional government, however, it's safe to assume that neither an armed citizenry nor a well-regulated militia really is "necessary to the security of a free State." The opposite seems closer to the truth; just ask the Bosnians or the Iraqis. And elections, it turns out, do the job pretty well. To put the matter simply, the Founders were wrong about the importance of guns to a free society.

But, critically, judges shouldn't be in charge of stripping disfavored rights from the Constitution. If the courts can simply make gun rights disappear, what happens when the First Amendment becomes embarrassing or inconvenient? It corrodes the very idea of a written Constitution when the document means, in practice, the opposite of what its text says. The great beauty of the Constitution is that, unlike, say, the treaties that form the European Union, you can actually read it. You can see how its language embodies principles that still animate the day-to-day operation of American political life. When that is no longer the case, American democracy suffers; it gets unmoored from its source of legitimacy.



If we disagree with the Founders--and as to guns, I very much disagree with whatever they might have meant--we should say so and invoke that provision of the Constitution they specifically designed so that we could give voice to our disagreements with them. The Bill of Rights is sacred, but it is not so sacred that we should prefer lying to ourselves about what it actually says, rather than changing it as our needs shift.

It's true that repealing the Second Amendment is politically impossible right now; that doesn't bother me. It should be hard to take away a fundamental right. But that doesn't make it less wrong to ask Silberman and his colleagues to relieve the political culture of the obligation of trying.

It is certainly easier to pretend that's not what we're doing--that the Founders never created the right, and that our values and theirs (except, of course, concerning slavery, women, Native Americans, and few other odds and ends) are more or less congruent. It's a lot easier to pretend that Silberman--but not, of course, Tribe, Amar, or Levinson--is a dangerous radical. But it's not healthy. We should seek gun control and a Constitution that means something.

Benjamin Wittes is a guest scholar at the Brookings Institution and is writing a book about the federal courts of appeals. He can be reached at [email protected].


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I'll give Wittes points for not lying.
 
Repeal the second amendment... riiiiight.


It might be possible to pass some BS legislation in Congress... but I can guaran-freaking-tee you that you'll never get a repeal of the 2nd ratified by the states. Not in a hundred years either.
 
At least he's being honest.

Ironic though how on one breath, he says that defense against tyranny isn't a valid concern anymore, yet on another, he goes on to say that we shouldn't ignore constitutional amendments because sooner or later they might ignore one you like. (Which I agree with, btw.) If they can ignore the first amendment, what makes him think they'll never cancel an election?
 
Let's repeal that right to an abortion the Founders included as well.
 
Yes, go right ahead, Democrats, dream on. Put it down as the first plank of your platform. Buy radio and television ads. Talk about it in the media, a lot.

Admit that I have a right to arms, a right as dear as the beloved First Amendment, and then admit that gun laws are unconstitutional. And then commit political suicide. Talk about a win-win proposition.:)

If we repeal the Fifth Amendment, can the police summarily execute speeders? If we repeal the Fifth Amendment and First Amendments, can the police summarily execute think tank wonks who criticize the government? If we repeal the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, can the police kick in the doors of policy wonks and summarily execute them when they find the marijuana growing in their closets?

THE BILL OF RIGHTS GIVES NO RIGHTS! THE BILL OF RIGHTS MERELY RECOGNIZES RIGHTS WHICH HAVE EXISTED LONG BEFORE THEY WERE WRITTEN DOWN. EVEN WITHOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, I HAVE A RIGHT TO ARMS.
 
Maybe someone can help me out on this one with all the new talk of repealing the 2nd Amendment. I seem to recall when learning about the Constitution that the Bill of Rights were added to the Constitution and were not supposed to be able to be repealed or ammended once adopted. Am I dreaming about this or is this the case?
 
Read my sigline.

Repeal any one of the bill of rights, and the whole constitution goes down with it.

No constitution, no republic.

No republic, all bets are off.


On the other hand, I think I have to applaud the notion that the Constitution actually means something, and can't be ignored when not to one's taste.
 
Well, he's got a point! Only what, one hundred, hundred and fifty, maybe? Only a hundred and fifty million-ish people were murdered by their governments last century. Clearly even contemplating the possibility of that happening smacks of paranoia. After all, such things could never happen here.

Oh wait...it kinda did...ask the Indians...
 
The writer is at least honest, though I'd be curious about his thoughts on proposed flag-burning or gay marriage amendments. He wants to do what has been done in the UK and Australia, except in the US case a public outcry and a few national leaders taking advantage of the circumstances won't get the job done, only 2A repeal will.

Let them try. No, really. You want to get the hunters that were duped by voted for Kerry to vote Republican? Make repeal of the 2A a Democratic party plank. And in the meantime, watch thirteen state legislatures draw pro-2A lines in the sand.
 
Ya know what? He can dream about repealing the 2nd amendment all he wants, what HE, or NO ONE ELSE CAN DO is REPEAL A RIGHT!

IT IS NATURAL and UNALIENABLE, it can NOT be taken away. His misrepresented "pretend" comment that "...the Founders never created the right" IS A FACT - THEY DIDN'T!


Long before the US Constitution was written and ratified, before Lexington & Concord, before the Declaration of Independence, there existed recognition of unalienable rights. It was already known that all men are by nature equally free and independent. It was known that all men have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot deprive or divest, by ANY compact, their posterity. These are the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. To secure these natural rights, governments are instituted. The common consent of the people is the foundation on which a civil government is founded. The common good of the people is its desired end. To effect this end, it is understood that a certain portion of natural liberty should be surrendered, in order for that which remains to be preserved. Only enough liberty must be given up as will be sufficient to enable those we choose as the administration of the government to establish laws, and to carry those laws into effect. It is not necessary for this purpose that individuals should relinquish those natural rights which are of such a nature that they cannot be surrendered. Of this kind are the rights of conscience, the right of enjoying and defending life, etc. Others are not necessary to be resigned, in order to attain the end for which government is instituted, and these therefore ought not to be given up
 
Going along with the same thing others have picked up on... does the author not realize that the same rational can be applied to other Amendments that he holds dearer to heart? :banghead:

This is not a left or right issue at all... it's the dissolution of Our Nation's founding principles. :( :cuss: :fire:
 
I know Parker has everyone in a frenzy, but it seems to me that repealing the Second Amendment shouldn't change a thing. The US would still not be delegated gun control powers. And the SCOTUS has always said that any federal protection of our individual RKBA is not due to the Second Amendment but rather regardless of it.
 
It's More than RKBA...It's the Whole Constitution

If the RKBA is collective, so then is free speech. Ergo, individuals have no free speech...only groups do, such as the Democratic party. Is that why the "Dim-wit-ocrats" want to control who engages in what political communication?

Are we seeing not merely an attack on firearms, but in fact, against the very Constitution? Me-thinks yes!! I do not fear only for my firearms...I fear for my very right to assemble, to collaborate with politically-like-minded fellows, and to speak out against this political perversion. The Patriot Act was the most unpatriot act I ever have witnessed. It has become the newest hammer with which to beat the life-breathe out of America and its rights-preserving document.
 
I say Go For It!

The sooner these people push for what their real objective is the better ... then they can be flushed out into the open and defeated.


I don't care how many polls they put up saying 70% of Americans want an AWB or other forums of gun control, the truth is that the majority of Americans would NOT support the repeal of the 2A.


If they tried to take this big a bite it could end their goofy little anti gun movement completely.

And if they win, fine, that would be a clear and obvious line in the sand that would trigger a little bit of liberty tree refreshment.
 
Oh absolutely. I'm glad to hear 'em being honest about it for a change. Especially this bit -
The Bill of Rights is sacred, but it is not so sacred that we should prefer lying to ourselves about what it actually says, rather than changing it as our needs shift.

As to if they actually managed to get a repeal (or a "clarifying amendment") ratified?

*heh*

That'll be fun. :)

-K
 
Not that I wish to be a harbinger of doom but a repeal the 2nd is the least of our worries. I’m far more concerned about a “treaty” with the U.N. A treaty with the U.N. supercedes all sovereign law including the Constitution. All that is required is the approval of the Senate and the signature of the President. Think about what we now have in the Senate and are about to have for a President.
 
Apparently they are having a big winter in hell. Never thought I would ever see an almost honest Leftie. Too bad he isn't logical as well then he would be on our side.

I say bring it on. We need that kind of open honest debate in this country. If you have not read Sanford Levinson's work I highly encourage you to do so. Try to imagine a liberal grudgingly admiting that everything the pro side says is true and then still advocating a ban; much like the above article. It is actually much better writting though and cites the founding fathers intent as an individual right.

Repeal the 2A? May as well take the whole bill of rights all at once. Any proposal to repeal it should save time and include them all to keep it honest. I have no desire to become a part of the Borg collective myself so the day that happens I will leave the country if I have the means.
 
This Guy has the "first in line to jump onto the cattle car" mentality... He will believe he is going out for a leisure Sunday drive out to the countryside. People like this can never imagine a government can actually be hijacked be nefarious elements that do not have the best interest of the people in mind.
 
I suggest we go straight to repealing the 8th afterward - maybe Willie Horton would have gotten what he deserved, not what was constitutionally acceptable.

The weapons available today, for one thing, are a far cry from muskets, which could never have yielded the kind of street violence America sees routinely now.

Muskets weren't used in street violence? Like the Boston Massacre?

On a more esoteric level, the Second Amendment's protection for militias reflected the importance the Founders attached to an armed citizenry as a protection against tyrannical government.

On a more esoteric level, I don't see how much more tyrannical you can get than regulating how much individuals can poop in a single sitting.

If he thinks it's different now, he's out of his mind.

But as said, he deserves credit: he recognizes that it's the law of the land, whether he likes it or not. If the people who made law, the people who enforce law, and the people who interpret law all thought that way, well, I don't think I'd have anything to complain about.
 
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