Denied Concealed Carry Permit in PA

[higher4hockey]

Hey guys, looking for a little heads up here. Here's the story, when I was 19 I got arrested for a DUI and possesion charge. Six years later after having been in the military for four years I apply for a concealed carry permit. It gets denied at the state police office. The officer behind the desk tells me that since I plead guilty to a drug charge I was denied. She tells me I can file and appeal with the State Police in Harrisburg, so I do. I include in this appeal my DD214 which shows that I am an OIF veteran. I also include letters of commendation and awards I have received throughout my service hoping that it would help my cause. I was denied again.

My question is this, is it going to be possible for me to ever get a concealed carry permit ? If so, what route do you all recommend I take to try and get one?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hire an attorney and seek expungement from your record.

 

[calaverasslim]

I totally agree with the LT. Hire an attorney.

That said, general question that I have been wanting to ask.

Why do people, who know what one of their abbreviations mean(OIF in this case), expect everyone else to know tham also??

I have no clue what OIF means.

 

[higher4hockey]

Operation Iraqi Freedom - The Iraq War

Operation Enduring Freedom - The war in Afghanistan

As I'm sure the LT will agree, the military is one big acronym. Sometimes we forget that not everyone speaks 'military'.

 

[jcwit]

Neither did I know what OIF ment but I googled it and came up with Operation Iraqi Freedom.

 

[danbrew]

Screw PA - simply go get a Utah permit. It is honored by PA.

Utah requires at least six years since, uh, "a stupid event".

 

[NavyLCDR]

N A V Y - Never Again Volunteer Yourself

U S A R M Y - Uncle Sam Ain't Released Me Yet

Screw PA - simply go get a Utah permit. It is honored by PA.

Utah requires at least six years since, uh, "a stupid event".

Does PA law allow a resident to carry on an out of state permit? Some states do, some states don't. If there is no such restriction in PA, that is a very valid option.

 

[Jonah71]

It's 5 yrs in Mo. You should be able to get a lawyer and get around this. And if it's like Mo., and the Police are denying you the right to carry without legitimate, up to date, documented reasons for you not to have a firearm, or they can't show by way of recent, behavior and/or provable actions by you demonstrating that you are a danger to yourself or your community.......then they have to pay the court cost. But here's the catch...if it's anything like my little town? They WILL find or create a reason.

 

[jahwarrior]

your story doesn't sound right.

unless you live in Philly, you are issued your LTCF (not a permit) through your local sheriff's office. the state police have nothing to do with licensing, whatsoever. and, in PA, any drug related offenses, regardless if they're misdemeanors, make you a prohibited person. in other words, no guns for you, or LTCF. you can seek a governor's pardon, but that's about your only shot.

for more specific info on PA statutes, go to www.pafoa.org

 

[CoRoMo]

My question is this, is it going to be possible for me to ever get a concealed carry permit?

Maybe not a PA permit, but it is definitely possible to get a permit from another state.

 

[Frank Ettin]

higher4hockey,

You have a real life legal problem in the real world. The Internet is a lousy place to come for advice:

* Communications with your lawyer are confidential. What you post on the Internet is not. It's generally a bad idea to discuss your legal matters with strangers in public.
* You have no idea what the qualifications are of the anonymous people offering you advice on the Internet. They may or may not know what they are talking about, but your interests are at stake in real life. That's just not a good situation.
* If you have problems, your lawyer will be around to help sort things out.

There may or may not be a way to clear your record in Pennsylvania. Your record may or may not be an issue with getting a permit from another state. What you need is a qualified lawyer.

A local RKBA may be able to help refer you to a lawyer knowledgeable about gun matters.

 

[rmodel65]

get a non resident permit and carry....florida will issue with a possession charge iirc after 3 or 5 years iirc..... any permit will allow you to car carry and you can OC on foot anywhere but philly which requires a reciprocal permit

 

[Franco]

Jahwarrior and Fiddletown together have this exactly correct. I am a lawyer in PA although I don't practice in the concealed carry/criminal area at all. I do know, however, that: (a) you should not give any more personal information on here but, instead, see a lawyer; there are some pro-bono attorneys available (legal clinics at law schools are a good starting point) if you can't afford one; and (b) state police have nothing to do with concealed permits -- I'm not sure what you may have applied for; go to your local county sheriff's office.

On the Utah/Florida notes, wouldn't you have to be a resident? I can't imagine that a PA resident can walk into a Utah sheriff's office and get a permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

On the Utah/Florida notes, wouldn't you have to be a resident? I can't imagine that a PA resident can walk into a Utah sheriff's office and get a permit.

Non-residents can apply for Utah and Florida permits via mail. Some other states have that option as well.

Washington state does not allow for mailed in applications, but a non-resident can walk into a Washington sheriff's office and obtain a Washington permit, no problemo.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...On the Utah/Florida notes, wouldn't you have to be a resident? I can't imagine that a PA resident can walk into a Utah sheriff's office and get a permit.

Utah and Florida (as well as a number of other states) issue permits to non-residents. Personally, I have permits from Nevada, Utah, Florida and Arizona.

Utah (http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/concealedfirearms.html) and Florida (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html) permits may be obtained by mail. The Florida proficiency requirement can be satisfied by evidence of having taken any one of a number of courses including, IIRC, an NRA Basic Handgun class. Utah requires that the application be signed off by a Utah certified instructor, but there are Utah certified instructors all around the country; and a list is published on the Utah website. I was able to satisfy the Utah requirements through a Utah certified instructor locally here in California.

One caveat. Many states recognize other states' permits. But some states require that their residents have a local permit. So it's possible that, for example, Pennsylvania might not recognize another state's permit when held by a resident of Pennsylvania, even if that out-of-state permit would otherwise be recognized when held by a person who is not a resident of Pennsylvania. I don't know if that's the case with Pennsylvania, and it will need to be checked out.

 

[Franco]

Very interesting. I was not aware of those potential back doors. Thanks.

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

Just get it expunged and have it gone for good. I had mine done in NJ while living in Florida and did it all through the mail with my lawyer.

 

[The Sarge]

Consult with an attorney. Usually the initial consultation is free. Allow him to help you by bringing the law into play on your behalf....versus just some State "Officer" denying your application.
Secondly...I have multiple state CHL licenses...they all require I be licensed in my state of residence first...in my case Texas.....Consult an attorney....I would

 

[KBintheSLC]

I had a similar issue in UT with similar charges. The difference was that I had about 12 years of trouble-free existence before I applied for the CCW. My application was approved as I showed that I could maintain good demeanor for over a decade.

You need to look into expungement. I believe that here it is 7 years for a class B/C misdemeanor and 10 years for an alcohol/DUI/drug charge. Not sure about PA. You need to find out what the written law is in PA to successfully appeal. In UT, your appeal would fail due to lack of elapsed time since your last conviction. I doubt that your military service will make any difference if you don't meet the criteria.

And no, it is not permanent. They will grant you a permit if you can stay out of trouble for enough time. We are not talking about violent felonies or domestic violence here.

On the Utah/Florida notes, wouldn't you have to be a resident? I can't imagine that a PA resident can walk into a Utah sheriff's office and get a permit.

One of the nice things about UT is that you don't have to ask Mr. Sheriff for a permit. The State issues them, and they issue to qualifying non-residents too.

 

[higher4hockey]

little clarification here folks.....you PA guys are right, I applied for it at the sheriff's office, but the appeal had to go through the State Police. Mistake on my part.


Fiddletown ~ good advice. thanks!

Jahwarrior ~ I'm going to have to disagree with you on the drug thing. I've bought numerous guns/handguns since, as danbrew put it, 'a stupid event'.


I think I'm going to go the talk to a lawyer route. I really didn't know where to turn once my appeal got turned down, I figured with a little info on my part, you all would be able to turn me in the right direction...and you came through admirably.

Thanks for all the responses! You all have pointed me in the right direction.

 

[Franco]

You had better consult an attorney quickly. Again, I don't practice in those areas of the law but I know that most administrative law decisions have a fixed window in which to appeal internally or take court action. If you miss that window, any appeal could be denied for administrative reasons (as opposed to substantive reasons). If you want to PM me with your geographical location (just generally -- sw pa, central, philly), I might be able to point you to a lawyer in your area. The Pennsylvania Bar Association also has a website that helps with referrals.

 

[leadcounsel]

As said before, you should get an attorney.

First try the Army Judge Advocate at your base, the Legal Assistance office. They should be able to help you out.

 

[Glockman17366]

unless you live in Philly, you are issued your LTCF (not a permit) through your local sheriff's office. the state police have nothing to do with licensing, whatsoever. and, in PA, any drug related offenses, regardless if they're misdemeanors, make you a prohibited person. in other words, no guns for you, or LTCF. you can seek a governor's pardon, but that's about your only shot.

The sherriff probably runs a background check through Pennsylvania State Police.

 

[jahwarrior]

The sherriff probably runs a background check through Pennsylvania State Police.

no, they don't. the background checks are done in the sheriff's office, with the exception of Philly, where it's done at the Philly PD station. the troopers have nothing to do with the PICS background check. you can request a check for yourself through them, for a nominal fee, as well as file an appeal to a denial.

 

[unloved]

Jahwarrior ~ I'm going to have to disagree with you on the drug thing. I've bought numerous guns/handguns since, as danbrew put it, 'a stupid event'.

jahwarrior is correct in that any conviction (or guilty plea) on a drug charge disqualifies you for a LTCF. Depending on the charge, you could be a prohibited person as well. People sometimes slip through the cracks. Being approved for purchases does not necessarily mean that you're legal.