Denver — A Few Notes from the Blizzard

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by MBane666, Dec 21, 2006.

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  1. Brutus45

    Brutus45 Member

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    That is good advice. Many times as you start to execute your plan, all the what ifs come to mind. You are better off sticking to your plan as best you can. Don't get much snow here in the sunny south but when we do, it creates a mess. I do depend on my Chevy Z71 4WD with Michelin M+S and chains during those times!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2006
  2. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Equipment can help, but in the end what matters is the driver behind the wheel and their skill at driving in bad conditions. I've only been stuck twice in my life. Once when I was driving my '70 Monte after a snow storm, and it was my own damn fault since I was hot-rodding on the slick stuff. :banghead: Second was in the blizzard of '03 when my Civic got highcentered and bogged down 75 feet from my front door, and thats only cause of the depth of the snow (31 some inches) that had not been plowed by the city. 20 minutes of shoveling the next day got it out with out problems.

    I did not brave the roads after this storm until this morning when I *HAD* to go feed my mother's cat since they are all up in Georgetown. Secondary streets were still a mess, but passable if one kept a cool head, light foot on the gas and some momentum in the deeper slush. The worst part was when I got to her apartment. It did not look like ANY plowing had been done, just people with big trucks trying to pack down the snow and then getting stuck, blocking the driveways. Of course, that would tend to explain the lack of plowing there. Kinda hard to plow when a bunch of Yahoos are blocking the way.
     
  3. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Oh, NO DOUBT driving skill matter alot...

    I posess that skill... that's why I do recovery, not get recovered...



    BUT - a moderately good driver with a real 4X4 and ecend ground clearance withh ALWAYS beat a good driver with 3" of ground clearance and AWD, simply because AWD is a "traction aid for slock ROADS" and a 4X4, if well built can just MAKE THEIR OWN ROAD...


    I challenge ANY of you with AWD cars and SUV's to go on a trailride... moderate trails... as in OFF ROAD... I'll bring a bone stock GMC 4X4 (Dads') and my lifted, tuned Dodge, AND the recovery gear...
     
  4. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    What is this "snow" of which you speak. Its 70 degrees here.
     
  5. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Hey, Lone Gunman -

    Go play in your mud instead... (southern boy, eh?)

    Then you oughtta understand REAL ground clearance, REAL power, and REAL 4X4 - think SWAMP BUGGY! :D
     
  6. BozemanMT

    BozemanMT Member

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    2 feeet everywhere, drifts over 4 feet.
    Paper says the airport has drifts over 9 feet.
    IT'S A LOT OF SNOW. I have my 4wd's and I got my a$$ home and stayed there.

    I woke up early Wednesday and was just sitting surfing, thinking I should check the weather since it didn't snow Tuesday like they said. And it says "2 feet of snow expected, impossible travel conditions, blizzard warning" Eeeeeekkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!! :what:
    Get into the shower, get dressed, wake up MrsBozemanMT (at 6:05am, it's pitch black) and say "honey, we've got work to do" Got out the generator, got out the 4wd's and put the 2wd away (we may have put it too far away, we may not get it back out til spring) and get the tractor running and hook up the box blade. Had to fix the deadman's switch. All of this in the pitch black with flashlights and car lights and it's snowing and about 30 degrees.

    I go off to work, basically only long enough to send people home. Called some of them at home (the late arrivers) and said "don't even come in, stay home" and sent everyone else home. Left work about 10am, took about 25 minutes (vs 15 normally) to get home, about 3" on the ground, blowing hard, and SLICK. Put the truck away and shoveled walks. Just keep coming down and blowing hard. There's almost none on the roof (wind out of the north), but 4' drifts in the driveway.

    By late evening it was as tall as the dog in the backyard. The rails of the fences are buried, (the bottom of which are 18" off the ground) and went to bed. Woke up and the snow was ending, and started shoveling out. The tree in the back by the patio is completely buried; I'm out of room to put snow. That pile is probably 5' deep. Unburied the tractor and got it running, had a quick breakfast and dug out the driveway, then went to work on the street. Neighbors up the street also had their tractors out and it still took us 3 hours to clear the street. The street is clean and clear with 5 to 6' piles on both sides of the street all the way up and down it.

    Then, it was my week to do the sidewalks at church, so MrsBozemanMT followed me in the truck and I took the tractor up to the church to clear the sidewalks. There was another crew there from the other ward that shares our building, they had 2 snowblowers and I had the tractor and there were about 4 guys on that crew. 2 to 3 FEET over the whole thing. The lot wasn't plowed, so I had to clear a path just to get in. It was amazing. Took us another 2 hours to get all that done.

    The 2 rail fence in front of my yard. That bottom rail is about 6" in diameter and its 18" off the ground from the bottom. Those piles are about 6' tall
    [​IMG]

    My back door. That's my great dane, to give you some idea. That pile to his left is about 5' tall. That planter to the dog's left is 16" tall.

    [​IMG]

    Out my front door, yes that's a real 14 hand horse behind that pile, gives you some idea of size. These aren't even the big piles. :what:

    [​IMG]

    Still more. You can see the street we cleared.

    [​IMG]


    So, being prepared and being smart has a whole lot to do with it. This is a lot of snow, you just can't be dumb and be out in it. If you are trapped fine, but the smartest thing to do was head home and sit around and clearn your guns. Cuz it's going to be quite a while before this all melts. Survival isn't just about guns and knives. (not that I'm not a total gunsnob, but still)
     
  7. MikeG

    MikeG Member

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    We had 3 -5 foot drifts in the Falcon area. Visibility was 5 - 10 feet most of Wednesday.

    On winter driving, I was going to work one day in my Jeep Wrangler. I was driving at a moderate speed, too slow for the lady behind me in the Windstar. She passed me in the other lane, got two car lengths ahead of me and lost it. She spun around and slid into the curb back end first. As I passed her, I thought 'there's a reason I'm driving this slow, lady.'
     
  8. TeachMe

    TeachMe Member

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    It's good to hear that people here in NC don't have a monopoly on poor winter-weather driving habits. Here we usually don't get much snow, it's ice that can cause problems--that and the fact that we don't have the equipment to quickly clear the roads. Anyway, as often as I've heard out-of-staters complain about natives not knowing how to drive in the snow, I'm glad to hear th honest admission that there are good and bad drivers everywhere :neener: . Personally, if it's cold enough for snow or ice in the first place, it's cold enough for me not to be outside. :p

    Stay warm and stay safe.
     
  9. BozemanMT

    BozemanMT Member

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    There are good drivers somewhere?????????????:confused:
     
  10. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    The weight bias of your pickup probably does make the smaller vehicles into better handling options in the snow. Its a small difference that wont be overcome by even a minute difference in operator skill. Based on *many* excursions on snow covered mountain roads I have observed that pickups do not do particularly well in the snow.

    Shame this is a thread about driving on snow covered roads, and not about mudding.
     
  11. LAK

    LAK Member

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    It amazes me just how many people live in temperate America and do not know how to drive on snow and ice - or take the trouble and exense to address even a fraction of the openly post list.

    Frontwheel drives are very good. Biggest problem with the 4x4 or AWD type cars is ground clearance; they can only plow so much.

    One of my own more interesting experiences was getting off work (in germany) one winters eve to find out that there had been a sudden snowfall in the late afternoon. Rapid temperature drop had produced ice in places and traffic and other factors packed snow and slush in others. The ride from the base home into Frankfurt on my Suzuki GS1000S was a wee bit strenuous and stressful in places.

    -----------------------------------

    http://ussliberty.org
    http://ssunitedstates.org
     
  12. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Member

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    Having lived in CO forty years, I know better than to go out and challenge the other drivers in crap like this, even with my 5-speed manual Audi Quattro with locking differentials.

    I swear, sometimes I think the Legislature ought to establish Graduated Drivers' Licenses, with endorsements, like they do with the motorcycle endorsement: "M."

    I can see an endorsement for snow driving: "S."

    If you ain't got an "S," you ain't allowed to drive in snow conditions --tires, 4x4, locking differentials, ground clearance, all notwithstanding.

    Oh. Wait a minute. I just woke up. That was a dream. And it would be an infringemement on people's Freedom.

    Oh. Wait just another minute. In some counties, they do that for Licenses To Carry... Auto versus Revolver... LTCs for one particular firearm... Hmm...

    Hmmm, again. They use restrictions like that for firearms, why not driver's licenses?

    I went to the toitie with the "After all, if they register cars, why not guns?" mantra running through my head. And its ramifications.
     
  13. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Used to live in Buffalo - now I live in San Antonio - vague memories of this situation flash by. Oh, well.

    When I lived in Oregon, we used to get ice storms that covered the road in frictionless sheets. One morning, I heard a big noise and saw a pickup upside down on a flat street covered with ice. As I looked for my pants, I saw the young lad crawl out of the cab and start kicking his truck.

    I left him to the elements and went back to bed.
     
  14. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Umm... LAK...

    I'm not dumb... recovery gear, a fiberglass topper, and a 400 pound steel plate (bolted down) all done while sitting on my bosses "split weigh" scale guarantee me an almost perfect 50/50 weight bias...

    the trails up here are SNOW coivered (or were until last night's rainstorm) so it wasn't MUDING i was challenging people to, but SNOW CRAWLING... where ground clearance, and tires that grip will win... (same as in deep-snow road driving!)


    OOPS, SORRY, I MEANT "c yeager"
     
  15. craigs380

    craigs380 Member

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    Wednesday: At work at the Penn Garage, 13th & Ogden, Denver. I was looking out the big door wondering how the heck my Mazda B2000 2wd longbed pickup was going to get up the looong grade up to my house in Green Mountain. Scrounged up some tire chains leftover from a car we sent to the crusher. Drove all the way home with no problems and even went around a Jeep Wrangler and a Toyota 4Runner stopped on the hill going up to my house. I noticed that they both had the 31x10.50x16 or bigger tires on them. It looked like the tires were plowing up snow in front of them and they couldn't get/keep going. I remembered my days of feeding cattle in SW Nebraska in deep snow with my old 1974 Chevy PU with full time 4WD. That truck had a locking center differential and open front and rear diffs. The only way to get anywhere was to put on the old high profile narrow width mud&snow tires on it. Wide tires in deep snow don't work!

    Friday: Stayed home thursday no parts runs for work. Drove in with chains on no problem. Not much going on so JT and I watched a guy with a full size short bed Chevy PU try to cut the corner around a car in front of the shop. He stopped short in the deep snow. We both noticed the big wide tires with the treads on the sidewall. The left front tire was spinning and the right rear was spinning. He snorted and rooted around and scraped snow for about ten minutes before he nailed the throttle and spun and burned rubber(smoke and whining). He finally wore through the snow and got going. Wide tires in deep snow don't work!

    Oh by the way, don't turn the front wheels all the way left or right and try to get any where:D
     
  16. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    lol

    have had a variety of vehicles with and without 4 wd and an assortment of winches etc. the worst was yamaha 750(when the other poster mentioned his suzuki my stomach churned in memory) the best snow vehicle(not a snowmobile) was a 1970 vw camper with larger rear wheels than front wheels. with chains on i was never stuck. and i drove in maine with snow above headlight height. it was like a boat in the ocean the lights illuminated the snow from below as it broke to both sides. with the nose low and the smooth bottom it didn't high center or suffer from snow packing under it.it had a corvair engine and plenty of power all the weight over the drive wheels and if i did screw the pooch i could fire up the catalytic heater and camp out till i got saved or it thawed out.
     
  17. wooderson

    wooderson member

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    Some places (TEXAS) don't even know how to drive in the rain, man.

    I hate driving during a thunderstorm here - 1/3 of the people know what they're doing, 1/3 think they can still do 90 without a hitch and 1/3 think it's the end of the world and they better not top 25 in the fast lane.
     
  18. klover

    klover Member

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    We had some snow in WA.

    This is the first year I tested the Wildcat M&S tires that were sipped at Les Schwabb. I have a junky, mid nineties, 2X Dodge Van with ABS.

    I could not believe the difference just the tires made! I never chained up once, and believe I will NEVER need to chain with these tires! It goes through ice I can't even walk on! I plowed through snow as never before in my 30 years in this state.

    So much for gun talk on this forum, HA!:p
     
  19. Roadwild17

    Roadwild17 Member

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    The equipment is an important part of it all but the skill is the most important part. I've got an off-road rig (notice I said rig and not truck) that if I get stuck, I'm definitely somewhere I shouldn't be. Add to that I can take my 2wd Nissan Frontier where most of my friends get stuck where there 4X4s, yeah I'm good for the mud.

    Show, haha, I'll be the guy throwing snowballs at the yahoos that got stuck then get out and are all like "Aww, why me" :neener:
     
  20. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Personally, I keep enough food and movies handy that I don't have to go anywhere except in emergency. That way I don't have to get on the road with other people who seem to think that their magic vehicles and magic tires will let them flaunt the laws of physics.

    If I do have to go somewhere, I leave the van in the driveway, and take my little Mitsubish Mirage... Front wheel drive works. The rear wheels are just for show in the snow...

    Main thing is to stay prepared, and don't let an influx of testosterone make you think that you can do things that you can't.
     
  21. Clipper

    Clipper Member

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    Northern Michigan survival kit...

    ...is what I call a 4-wheel drive (Mine's a '04 Dodge hemi pickup) with a set of Interco Super Swampers. Snow or mud, doesn't make a lot of difference, if you're serious about getting through it, nothing else comes close. One of the off-road magazines (forget which one) did a traction tire 'shootout', and though they're not style queens (who cares what they look like?), and they've not been 'improved' in 25 years, they found that nothing beats 'em. And that's why every truck I've had since I found out about 'em 20 years ago has gotten a set-even the 2-WDs. Unfortunately, the Dodge came with the 20-inch rims, and a set of tires is gonna run $1500.00, but there are some things you just don't cut corners on...
     
  22. Lucky

    Lucky Member

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    Lol, Montreal driving school. I didn't think they existed, more of a natural selection driving process out there.


    Talking about equipment, in the old days they seemed to manage. My boss, who knows everything about cars and trucks, explained that an old Ford pickup could travel any road in the deepest snow, because they'd put on narrower tires for winter. You put on narrow tires and then you cut right down to the pavement and get traction, and can plow through any drift.

    But I don't know any magic that allows people to drive rubber tires on icy roads. If a road's literally icy, if you go to brake and start sliding, you'll slide sideways as well as forwards because of the cant of the road.

    ...And downhill corners on icy roads... suck.
     
  23. ezypikns

    ezypikns Member

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    What is this "RAIN".....

    of which you speak?


    Which reminds me of the story about the rancher in west texas who was throwing gravel on top of his tin roofed house when his neighbor rode by. When asked why he was doing that he said that there was a storm coming and he didn't want his 10 year old to spook too bad the first time he heard raindrops hit the roof.
     
  24. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    What Clipper said... my tires of choice? Interco Super Swampers... 35x12.5-17 on my '01 Dodge Ram
     
  25. redneckrepairs

    redneckrepairs Member

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    LOL that is one i hadn't heard and i live out where the jack rabbits carry cantines
     
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