Dept Homeland Security to use Churches to take your Arms

Status
Not open for further replies.
Can't believe I haven't seen anyone calling for Clint Eastwood...

Preeeacheeeeer...Preeeeacheeeeer...Preeeecheeeeer. :neener:

I couldn't resist. Back to the seriosuness.

Doc2005
 
Last edited:
Did not our Founding Fathers assert in pre-Constitutional writings amongst themselves, that the citizens possessed God-given-rights, inalienable, which said same pre-existed even the writing of the Constitution and Bill of Rights?!

In light of the sum-of-the-whole of those writings, what preacher (save for a spineless "anti") could ever assert that we should turn in our firearms to anyone?!

The day Congress successfully closes the borders, collects and ejects every single illegal in America, and ejects all terrorists in America's boarders, I shall at the minimum listen to their position of how turning in my firearms would enhance security. Until then, I see a collective, whose inaction regarding my protection puts me to mind of impotent anarchists, disguised as leaders who care only about their self-preservation through my eventual demise.
 
If you haven't yet, please take a look at the Changes at THR thread stickied at the top of this forum and partially quoted below:

Legal forum is now for legal issues only. When giving advice, please endeavor to provide links or references to original documents, laws and other relevant resources. Please keep the topics related to guns and RKBA.

Political topics go into Activism Discussion forum -- provided they are accompanied by plans of action. Mere griping is no longer appropriate for THR. If you want to discuss an injustice or a political development, propose a remedy!

If there are legal aspects to having clergy (or anyone else) assist the government in keeping order that are unclear, this would be the thread to discuss it in.

If you are upset about this and propose to do something, Activism is the forum for you.

If you just want to talk about how you will never give up your guns and make comparisons to Nazis, wrong place entirely.

Thanks for your help in keeping THR on track with its mission.
 
Sorry, I must have missed this.

Was Posse Comitatus repealed?

Public Law 109-364

The John W. Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007.

Signed by President Bush on Oct. 17th 2006.

Its a modification to the Insurrection act allowing the President the ability to induce the insurrection act and override Posse Comitatus by opening up a whole new category from health problems, natural disasters, terrorist attacks or other incidents and put the natural guard from any state under the direct command of the President regardless of Governer concent. Under the new laws even a pipebomb or two would be enough to declare martial law in the union, if the President views there is a shortfall in public order.

The laws are so vague and opens up so many new ways to activate the Insurrection Act it therefore makes Posse Comitatus useless.
 
religion is sometimes used as a means to control the general population.

IMHO the entire reason there is religion is to control the masses.

No organized religion has their hooks into me, i seriously doubt God cares how I remain true to my beliefs.

I do not see in that story where it said preachers would advocate gun grabbing.
 
Bringing Legalility into the thread - why is it that some churches are sanctuaries for ILLEGAL aliens and oppose the Gov't but in case of an emergency they will ILLEGALLY support the Gov't to confiscate arms?

How does this jive with churches supporting the law?
 
And to guide this back into legal:

The writer makes 3 critical legal mistakes:

1)

The writer fails to understand or mention that the NOLA confiscations were NOT legal to begin with, and furthermore, as a result of NOLA/Katrina, whole sets of laws were put into place to prevent that from happening again.

I have challenged anyone to show me unambiguous authority to perform door to door confiscations of firearms in LA statutes since Katrina, and the challenge remains to be met.

Furthermore, the courts agree with that position, and have issued various writs of "knock it the hell off", and "give them back their guns, you ijits".

2)

The assertion that Posse Commitatus has somehow been "eliminated" is to fail to understand what the act was in the first place.

It has _never_ been an absolute prohibition on the use of armed forces in CONUS.

The act removed domestic use of the army from local authority, and placed it firmly into the executive branch subject to the restrictions placed by Congress.

This was true in 1878, and remains true today.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)

3) The writer fails to understand that "martial law" can only be asserted by the Feds, in certain special circumstances (which IS a fair, but separate topic of discussion), or the complete and abject failure of the local and state authorities to function in any capacity.

Normally, what the press bandies about as "martial law" is actually a "state of emergency".

Furthermore, the press believes that in "states of emergency", the authorities can do whatever they want.

This is simply not so. During states of emergencies, which are restricted both in time, and in place, the authorities may wield extraordinary powers that are not normally available to them, but these powers are both finite and enumerated, spelled out in law.

Typically, they allow the authorities to prohibit the _sale_ of liquor, guns and ammunition. No jurisdiction I am aware of allows the door to door confiscation of firearms.
 
Doc
Armed Bear just nailed it...people have not learn their history. But, rest assured, that same fact increases the liklihood that they will have the opportunity yet to learn from the future.

I don't think its that people don't take history anymore but it sure seems that they don't recognize when the same thing is happening. Its like if you changed the uniforms then all of a sudden folks don't recognize what they are seeing. Learning from the future is a painful way to educate yourself.:what:
 
vynx said:
Bringing Legalility into the thread - why is it that some churches are sanctuaries for ILLEGAL aliens

Just bringing "legality" and "guns" into the thread isn't sufficient. It isn't a magic phrase that you can utter to make an off-topic post or rant suddenly immune from the humorless moderators determined to squish your post. ;)

Legal forum is now for legal issues only. When giving advice, please endeavor to provide links or references to original documents, laws and other relevant resources. Please keep the topics related to guns and RKBA.

In addition to having a questionable relationship to RKBA, your question isn't actually a legal question or one that has anything to do with legality. It is an opinion/statement disguised as a question and really doesn't address the original topic or suggest can be done to solve the problem.
 
this is an old story, let loose by Alex Jones a year ago.

So Alex Jones is an authority in exegesis and hermeneutics?

Any way to move this whole thread over to APS, on account the constant temptation to veer into one of THR's Forbidden Topics? This doesn't fit in Legal. Who's going to sue DHS? Ditto Activism.
 
Does anyone have any facts about this alleged "Clergy Response Team"? One lame local news story does not a viable outrage make.
 
Well, about a year ago I posted an article from, I think, the Detroit Free Press in which it was detailed that the Royal Oak, MI police chief called a local minister up on the carpet because he encouraged his followers to get their CCW and to carry it IN CHURCH.

What business was that of the Chief of Police?! Maybe I need to go back to church.
 
Does anyone have any facts about this alleged "Clergy Response Team"? One lame local news story does not a viable outrage make.

Well, as a clergy member, I still have yet to be contacted in any capacity. I wonder if this is one of those things they float in public to see if folks go for it.

I don't see me or any of my colleagues being a serious threat to anybody's RKBA.
 
Bartholomew Roberts tried to steer this one in the right direction. Unfortunately, it was already so far off-course it was too late.

Closed for veering off topic.

Feel free to re-start the thread with a discussion strictly on the legal aspects of this proposal.

-Dave
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top