Deputy cleared in drug raid shooting... Clean shoot or not?

[Spreadfire Arms]

bottom line.

in real life it was a justified shoot. on THR if he was a cop it is not a justified shooting. on THR if he is an armed citizen then he was justified to shoot.

it is interesting to see how people have never served on an entry team can use their mall ninja tactics to second guess these officers.

let's take a head count: how many here have served on an entry team, be it law enforcement or military?

here's one. i did two years of this....he would have been justified in my book.

it makes me wonder when people judge an officer's decision to shoot or not shoot but then have no training or experience to back up their opinion.

 

[centac]

People are sometimes "secured" by gunfire. The suggestion that jumping on the guy and cuffing him when he could be armed isnt consistent with the concept of the force continuum. You don't close distance with people who may be armed, you make distance and if needed use stand-off weapons like firearms. All getting closer to the guy is gonna do is make for, in the cop's mind, a good chance for a really nasty contact wound, and who wants that?

I think it was Graham v Connor where the court acknowledged that force decisions have to be made in circumstances that are "tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving" and that the officer's actions have to be judged based on what he could have reasonably believed at the time, and not based on what was subsequently learned after the fact.

Now back to shining my jackboots

 

[El Rojo]

And, my point was that those police should not have been serving a no-knock warrant so that they can search for DRUGS in the first place. The fact that the police are dressing up like ninja wannabees and kicking down doors to serve warrants while carrying machine guns that civilians are not even allowed to own just might be a big part of the public relations problem.

Yes, it is the cops fault that law makers and the executive branch have created the war on drugs. Nevermind the fact that we elect those people so we are ultimately responsible for the WoD and so if we want to change it, we need to vote and change it. Yes, it is easier to blame the cops and the war on drugs for this guy digging under the couch for his gun. You are right, this is a murder sanctioned by the WoD and the jack booted thugs made it happen because they have discretion of going after drug dealers and there is no pressure from the public or politicians to go after drug dealers. And I alsmost forgot, again, the cops are bad because the law makers have taken away our machine guns and allowed them to have machine guns. They should refuse to have machine guns right? They don't though, so they are murderers! Lying, filthy murderers!

Telling me that "most" are not going to try to abuse power doesn't change my personal life's experiences.

Your one experience makes them all bad eh? Well you are right then. All cops must be bad. Since your cop wanted to harrass you, all cops are murderers and none should be trusted. Good point Goalie. Excellent point.

 

[yorec]

Heh - I'm also a former POST and Academy firearms instructor and served 12 years doing this kind of thing before I had to go get a job that really issued paychecks... I too got hassled by an officer a little while ago - control freakin' stats hungry little puke! But I still realize that he is not the norm - most officers are not like him and all are expected to be better.

Goalie - yer arguement doesn't hold water with me either...

And the mentioned "double standard" earlier that cops are given the benefit of the doubit in such shootings? Garbage - they just usually have witnesses and vidoe or audio tape to back up thier claims. Evidence of nonguilt is as important as that of guilt. Consequently cops have an easier time proving what actually happened. There is no double standard, just better preparedness when things go wrong.

 

[goalie]

let's take a head count: how many here have served on an entry team, be it law enforcement or military?

**Raises hand** (military though)

FWIW, I never once said "all" cops are bad. I did say that I am on the other side of the fence now when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt. You can thank your "camrades in arms" in the Minneapolis PD for that change of heart.

Oh, and the "don't blame the cops for the bad laws" argument is a little old. The cops are the ones breaking into peoples homes or shooting women as they hold a baby in their arms from a few hundred yards away. Saying "it's my job" doesn't really cut it with me.

 

[duckslayer]

Let's see...

if a cop is already pointing a gun at me, yelling at me not to move, am I going to...

a) repeatedly feel under the couch for something that the officer cannot see
b) not move and do what he says
c) soil myself

Well, I can bet I'd do 2 out of the three.

 

[centac]

"or shooting women as they hold a baby in their arms from a few hundred yards away. "

And this is tiresome to us, too. Ruby Ridge and Waco seem to be all you've got. You are willing to damn an entire profession on incredibly rare statistical anomalies? Its like the anti's harping on any given mass shooting, and lumping all gunowners in with the shooters, and frankly, there have been far more mass shootings that Ruby Ridges.

 

[Don Gwinn]

This thread has gone on too long. Lots of heat, just about no light.

Closed for unacceptably low signal-to-noise.