Deputy in videotaped Chino shooting changed story, report says

[PinnedAndRecessed]

A sheriff's deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed man following a high-speed chase changed his version of events after viewing the footage of the incident, according to a confidential sheriff's report.
San Bernardino Sheriff's Deputy Ivory John Webb Jr. has pleaded not guilty to attempted voluntary manslaughter charges in the Jan. 29 shooting of Air Force policeman Elio Carrion, 21, who was a passenger in the car Webb was pursuing and is recovering from his wounds.

Minutes after the shooting, Webb, 45, told a sheriff's sergeant and a Chino police officer that he opened fire because Carrion had tried to charge at him, according to the nearly 400-page confidential report.

When he finally agreed to be questioned four days later, Webb had seen the videotape that aired repeatedly on television and claimed he used deadly force because he believed Carrion was reaching for a gun, the report says.

During a tearful two-hour interview with sheriff's investigators, Webb said he "saw what appeared to be (Carrion's) hand inside his jacket" and thought the airman was reaching for a gun and was going to kill him.

Webb said he was thinking, "I'm not going to see my baby, I'm not going to see my wife. I'm not going to see my dad." He then shot Carrion three times.

Webb said he had joined a 120 mph pursuit that was already in progress and didn't know why the men were fleeing. He also said he was struggling to keep an eye on both suspects and believed they were planning to flee or attack him.

Carrion's attorney, Luis Carrillo, said he believed Webb changed his initial story after realizing it didn't mesh with what the videotape showed.

"He falls back on a classic false version of events that police have used over and over again to justify bad shootings," Carrillo said. "When they shoot an unarmed person, they claim that they saw them reach for their waistband or reach inside their jacket, causing them to fear for their lives. Thank God for the videotape. It totally destroys his false stories."

Webb's attorney, Michael D. Schwartz, did not return calls from the Los Angeles Times seeking comment.

Deputy District Attorney Lewis Cope, who is prosecuting Webb, declined to comment about the deputy's statements or any other aspect of the case.

http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/11934193p-12700512c.html

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Yeah, I think I'd change my story, too, if I'd been videotaped.

What's the Latin phrase? The thing speaks for itself?

 

[TheEgg]

"He falls back on a classic false version of events that police have used over and over again to justify bad shootings," Carrillo said. "When they shoot an unarmed person, they claim that they saw them reach for their waistband or reach inside their jacket, causing them to fear for their lives. Thank God for the videotape. It totally destroys his false stories."

Sure sounds like the lawyer nailed it, doesn't it?

 

[1911 guy]

I thought this smelled funny from the beginning.

The cop tells the man to get up, then shoots him as he attempts to get up. I was calling set-up from the start. If the cop was under so much stress to accidentaly fire, why would he order a suspect to get up when he didn't feel in control of the situation? I'll repeat me sentiments from an earlier post on the same topic. I think they'll find the shooting to be deliberate if not premeditated. Attempted murder should be the charge.

 

[TexasRifleman]

What's the Latin phrase? The thing speaks for itself?

res ipsa loquitur

In legal terms it's not 'exactly' used in cases like this though the truth of it applies.. It refers to situations when it's assumed that a person's injury was caused by the negligent action of another party because the accident was the sort that wouldn't occur unless someone was negligent to begin with.

A gun related example would be 2 Darwin candidates pointing "unloaded" guns at each other while drinking a cold beer and one "accidentally" shooting the other. That's res ipsa loquitur


Regardless,
When the camera is rolling, keep your story believable.
Sounds like this guy has been watching too many episodes of 'The Shield'

 

[tenbase]

I was thinking the cop may have had an ND under stress, and it surprised him so much he "returned fire". Just a thought.

 

[Biker]

I was trying to keep an open mind about this shooting, but this little bit of news has convicted him in my eyes.
Biker

 

[wingman]

I was thinking the cop may have had an ND under stress, and it surprised him so much he "returned fire". Just a thought.

I also had the same thoughts, fear will do strange things.

 

[DunedinDragon]

I have a feeling we're going to see a LOT more cases like this as time goes on due to the presence of video capabilities on phones and such. Just like the video of the Sheriff's beating the kid at the youth ranch in Florida. The second autopsy was completed yesterday and they determined his death was NOT caused by natural causes and most probably was a result of the beating. Looks like those officers (and a nurse who watched the beating) will be charged.

Hopefully these two cases will start weeding out some of the folks that should NEVER have been in positions of authority in the first place. A couple of well-timed convictions may be all it takes to start making a difference.

 

[1911 guy]

Tenbase and Wingman:

The cop first said the Airman charged him, implying the Airman was on his feet, able to advance. The reality, however, was that the man was on the ground. The video captured this fact, so now the shooter says the Airman put his hands in his pockets. If that was a justifiable reason, why wasn't it the one given? Answer? He's now in "cover six" mode. He fouled up big time, possible deliberately. It looks that way, given the intentional deceit.

 

[tenbase]

Yeah, it's evident the cop is in full BS mode now, I was just throwing out a possible reason why he shot the guy in the first place.

 

[garyk/nm]

Down here in NM recently, a LEO was video'd executing a man who was handcuffed and proned out. The perp had previously killed the LEO's partner. At trial, the LEO was given 1 year for involuntary manslaughter and all of the local LEO associations were crying that this was too strict.
I predict a similar outcome in the OP situation.

Call me cynical.

 

[CAS700850]

Ah, but we have conflicting outcries here. On one hand, there's the LEO outcry, but on the other hand we have the pro-military/support our troops outcry. Given the videotape, and my impressions based upon the tape, this LEO will lose.

 

[wingman]

The cop first said the Airman charged him, implying the Airman was on his feet, able to advance. The reality, however, was that the man was on the ground. The video captured this fact, so now the shooter says the Airman put his hands in his pockets. If that was a justifiable reason, why wasn't it the one given? Answer? He's now in "cover six" mode. He fouled up big time, possible deliberately. It looks that way, given the intentional deceit.
__________________

Just an opinion from watching video but again looks like a "shoot out of fear"
thing to me, of course most would not want to admit to this thus the other
cover stories. Again wasn't there so just an opinion.

 

[El Tejon]

Don't forget there is always the possibility that the media is completely misreporting this case.

However, if accurate, it does look real bad for the defense.

 

[Baba Louie]

120 mph pursuit...
Adrenalin dump...
Gun in hand...
Fine motor skills...

Hmmm...

But lying??? An Officer of THE LAW... LYING??? OK... changin' his story to fit facts after the fact.

Oh. My. Goodness.

For THAT... he should be... I dunno what, but he should. It makes it even harder for good Cops to do their jobs when the public at large sees just one example of negative spin in action by someone they NEED to have TRUST IN and then we all begin questioning any and every action by those who wear badges. (But then, this nation always has... Both the Press and the Citizenry [fueled on by the press] are the watchdogs of our guard-dogs... or should be.

I wasn't there. You weren't there. I have never shot another human for any reason, nor have I participated in a high speed pursuit or had to tell it all to the authorities explaining why, all the while trying to remember everything as it actually happened. Being held to a higher standard... can suck.

If he did something stupid or illegal, be a man. Take yer medicine. Come what may.

 

[XD_fan]

As our police are allowed to become more and more a para-military organization the number of shootings goes up. Its only going to get worse and worse until the majority of the public starts saying something about the attitudes that are prevelant in LE today. Its rate that I don't read about a shooting on the gun boards where the overwhelming sentiment is that you should obey the police or risk getting shot. That if you aren't doing something illegal you have nothing to fear from the police. That's all well and good if you live in a police state. However this is, or at least used to be, a free country and innocence is assumed until proven guiltly.

The whole swat/no-knock entry attitude is a danger to the public. What am I supposed to do when as an innocent man asleep in my home someone kicks in my front door in the middle of the night. And it doesn't matter how much yelling of police is being done. The criminals do the same thing. The police need to be put back into the protect and serve mode and out of the persecute and execute mode.

For those who don't believe watch how I get slammed for saying this. This particular shooting is just a symptom of a much larger problem.

 

[Vex]

I was trying to keep an open mind about this shooting, but this little bit of news has convicted him in my eyes.

This is what the media does best...

 

[Herself]

I think we may be forgetting the "high speed car chase" syndrome. Certainly the officer did!

Coming off a chase like that, the LEO (and the suspect) is amped. Maxed out on adrenaline. In "pursue quarry" mode, a close cousin to "fight or flight." Hopped up on natural speed, one's judgement is impaired.

This kind of overwhelmed by your own brain chemistry situation is why people who are likely to be subjected to it train, train, train.

Officer Friendly's training misfired; having hunted his quarry to earth, he took it down.

Intentional? Unlikely. Could he have spoken one way and acted in another? You bet. Justifiable? Nope. But very, very possible.

If you're out to get shot or beat by the police, lead them on a high-speed chase, the more dangerous the better. Not because they're all evil but because whatever else they are, they're human.

...There have been reports of steroid use among police officers in recent years, use prompted by LEOs trying to stay ahead of pumped-up or drugged-up suspects and trying to cope with increasingly stressful working conditions. Toss a handful of steroids into a "hot pursuit" situation and the results can look like something from an overwrought propaganda film.

Who indeed shall guard the guardians?

If it's speeding or otherwise stupid driving, slow down, pull over, take your darn ticket. Running will only make it worse.

No, it wasn't right the guy got shot. Yes, the officer was in all likeliehood in the wrong to shoot him. He was certainly wrong to lie about what happened, all the more so if it was a deliberate lie. But the moron driving the car the police were chasing had his finger on the trigger, too.

--Herself

 

[CAnnoneer]

Unless the shooting was premeditated, I'd give the cop the benefit of doubt. If he honestly was in fear of his life, of course he should shoot. Cops are not psychics and have no X-ray vision to see if the perps was reaching for gum or gun.

Part of the problem is our society has become so infused with lawyerism that people would rather lie than tell the truth if the complex truth can be twisted into an indictment by a careerist DA or a litigeous lawyer.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Part of the problem is our society has become so infused with lawyerism that people would rather lie than tell the truth if the complex truth can be twisted into an indictment by a careerist DA or a litigeous lawyer.

If you think a lawyer can play hell with a complex truth, then just get caught lying. At least with a complex truth the lawyer has to work to twist your words. With a lie, you are doing the work for him and all he has to do is catch you.

 

[Biker]

Vex...

Falsis in unum, falsis in omnibus.

Give me the poop, the whole poop and nothing but the poop and we'll talk. Anything less, and your credibility has gone the way of the dinosaur.

Biker

 

[sturmruger]

I am sure this officer didn't start out this persuit thinking I am going to kill this guy. It seems to me that he pulled the trigger almost with out thinking about it. He tells the guy to get up and then shoots him when he follows directions. I believe that he should be charged with something I just don't know what would be apropiate.

I saw the video, and it was pretty chilling to see even though it isn't the best quality.

 

[Jim March]

IF these reports are accurate, in addition to any charges related to the shooting, add felony perjury.

If perjury charges are NOT pressed, it amounts to a statement by the DA's office that cops can do whatever they want so long as they successfully lie, and they might as well since the lie itself won't make things worse.

THAT to me is what will make the difference here, if a lie on the initial report is confirmed.

 

[JohnBT]

I've always heard that studies have shown that eyewitness testimony is almost completely worthless most of the time. I don't see why a participant's recollection would necessarily be any better. Should be, but probably isn't.

John