My grandfathers old .38spl derringer is thicker and just as long as my keltec p3at. The derringers grip is a little shorter, its unsafe to carry, and takes some manipulation to fire 2 shots that will most likely hit from much of a distance. It'd nice and heavy to chuck at someone, but I think a p3at would be a better choice in every possible way.
Derringer a waste of money???
- Thread starter PlayboyPenguin
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The point about needing a lot of manipulation is a good one. You'll get killed many times over by the time you can actually get a derringer into play. To me that eliminates the derringer even more than the other valid points about low power, low capacity and poor accuracy.
There are too many good small guns being made today to turn to something like a derringer for convenience.
There are too many good small guns being made today to turn to something like a derringer for convenience.
hurrakane212
Member
Coffee
Hella yes! I spent 12 years in Oregon and am a total coffee snob. I am now in Tennessee where the best I can find is Starbucks and Panera, sometimes the occational ATL bread Co. I miss microbrewery Oregon beer and local coffee shops... pardon me as I cry into my latte~NathanPlayboyPenguin said:Do people still drink Folgers??? here in the NW (coffee capital of the world) that is a bad word.
Before you drink the derringer kool-aid, handle one a lot.
Practice pulling it out of a pocket.
Try cocking it, if it is one that requires cocking.
Try the trigger pull.
Take one out to a range and actually shoot it at least 25 times in a row.
And then realize that you're going to get only two shots with an awkward, clunky re-load process.
I bought a NAA .22 magnum "mini-revolver" because of its small size.
I kept it for about one month.
From five feet away (feet, not yards) I could not get that beast to consistenly print on a large pizza box.
It's one of the very few guns that I've actually sold off after aquiring it.
hillbilly
Practice pulling it out of a pocket.
Try cocking it, if it is one that requires cocking.
Try the trigger pull.
Take one out to a range and actually shoot it at least 25 times in a row.
And then realize that you're going to get only two shots with an awkward, clunky re-load process.
I bought a NAA .22 magnum "mini-revolver" because of its small size.
I kept it for about one month.
From five feet away (feet, not yards) I could not get that beast to consistenly print on a large pizza box.
It's one of the very few guns that I've actually sold off after aquiring it.
hillbilly
kjeff50cal
Member
I had my derringer period when I was in my twenties (1980s) and working in a grocery store in a rough part of town. Traded/sold all of them. From a brace of Freedom Arms Minis to 2 American Derringers in .45LC/.410 and .45ACP respectively.
I have had a dreaded Buffalo Arms Derringer in .357
. Shot it a half dozen times with full house 158grn SPs, my right hand throbs at the thought of it. Apart from the safety on the AM Derringers (and they aren't that safe ask Dave Crosby of Crosby, Stills & Nash) and the High Standard DA type of actions, the only way to carry them safe is hammer down on an empty chamber which effectively makes it into a ONE shooter. Like they say you can always throw it at the BG.
The only one I really would buy again was a brand that slips my mind now, but was built on the lines of a High Standard DA Derringer BUT was chambered in 9 mm Luger. I kept it loaded with Winchester Silver Tips and it was a shade smaller than a Seecamp .32. Sold it to a friend in the Sheriffs Office who uses it as a BUG.
kjeff50cal
I have had a dreaded Buffalo Arms Derringer in .357
. Shot it a half dozen times with full house 158grn SPs, my right hand throbs at the thought of it. Apart from the safety on the AM Derringers (and they aren't that safe ask Dave Crosby of Crosby, Stills & Nash) and the High Standard DA type of actions, the only way to carry them safe is hammer down on an empty chamber which effectively makes it into a ONE shooter. Like they say you can always throw it at the BG.The only one I really would buy again was a brand that slips my mind now, but was built on the lines of a High Standard DA Derringer BUT was chambered in 9 mm Luger. I kept it loaded with Winchester Silver Tips and it was a shade smaller than a Seecamp .32. Sold it to a friend in the Sheriffs Office who uses it as a BUG.
kjeff50cal
OBXMIKE
Member
I own a Bond .45/.410 Texas defender. Every now and then I will carry it OWB just for s&g's or when I'm fishing as snake protection. Lots of aggressive moccasins 'round here. As mentioned before, it is awkward, heavy, and takes some finger strength to cock and fire that sucker. And the recoil from 00 buckshot WILL get your attention! They are exceptionally well made, and you can switch off barrels to different calibers, which I like. The weight alone prevents me from pocket carry, therefore I have a S&W 340sc that is my constant ccw companion. All in all, I view it as more of a toy/curiosity than a viable primary self-defense weapon. However, any gun is better than no gun...........
SixForSure
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I have one with three sets of barrels, .45Colt/.410, .357, 9mm. The recoil of the first two, though not pleasant, is not painful. (the 9mm is quite comfortable) The design of the grip causes it to "roll" in the hand rather than slam straight back. The safety is convienent, allowing for quick dissengagement. My purely subjective opinion is that the .410 loads seem a little milder, recoil wise, than the .45 Colt.Biker said:
SixForSure
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I believe Bond Arms states 20 Ounces.
http://www.bondarms.com/
http://www.bondarms.com/
carpettbaggerr
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I don't care for them myself and currently have none. In calibers like 22's, why not get a 22lr or magnum chambered NAA mini revolver, 5 shots and about the same size.
In the largers calibers you have a pretty big gun that is hard to shoot with only 2 shots, I'd generally rather have a compact 380 or a snub 38spl. I do want to get one day a .410 derringer mostly for fun.
Depends on the person though, I had a frined who liked them and packed a single shot FIE 38spl derringer for a long time. His friend he claimed too killed a large dog that was menacing him with a pair of 22short Colt derringers.
In the largers calibers you have a pretty big gun that is hard to shoot with only 2 shots, I'd generally rather have a compact 380 or a snub 38spl. I do want to get one day a .410 derringer mostly for fun.
Depends on the person though, I had a frined who liked them and packed a single shot FIE 38spl derringer for a long time. His friend he claimed too killed a large dog that was menacing him with a pair of 22short Colt derringers.
M2 Carbine
member
Biker said:
Biker you might see if you can get some actual reports on the effect or lack of effect of buckshot from that almost non existent barrel.
I had decided to get a Bond Arms derringer. I favored 45ACP but hadn't ruled out the .410. I was skeptical about the .410 developing any velocity.
I have a TC with a 7 inch 410/45LC barrel, so I thought I'd see just what the .410 buckshot actually does from a short barrel.
I shot wood 2x6s and 3/4 inch plywood from about 4-6 yards away.
The deepest penetration of the 3 inch, 5 ball, 00 buck shot shells was only one inch. Most balls only penetrated about 3/4 inch. No buck penetrated the 3/4 inch plywood.
Even the weakest pistol round will usually go through a 2 inch board.
Considering that the .410 BS performance is so poor from a 7 inch barrel, what must it be doing from a 3.5 inch barrel.
The 45LC is a big hunk of lead but from my .410 the bullet tumbles right out of the barrel and is extremely inaccurate. From what I've heard it does the same from the derringer.
So I bought the 45ACP, which is accurate and fairly powerful.
Makes sense, M2, but my primary carry gun is a Taurus 450 (.45LC), so it kinda makes sense that the .45 LC/.410 would go well with that setup instead of the usual .38 snubbie or .380 that I often throw in my hip or vest pocket.
'Sides, I'm trying to talk myself into a *fun-gun*. Don't go throwin' logic at me!
Biker
'Sides, I'm trying to talk myself into a *fun-gun*. Don't go throwin' logic at me!
Biker
M2 Carbine
member
Biker said:Makes sense, M2, but my primary carry gun is a Taurus 450 (.45LC), so it kinda makes sense that the .45 LC/.410 would go well with that setup instead of the usual .38 snubbie or .380 that I often throw in my hip or vest pocket.
'Sides, I'm trying to talk myself into a *fun-gun*. Don't go throwin' logic at me!
Biker
I understand, but how about this.
Get the 45LC derringer. Then you'll have a accurate, powerful derringer to match your Taurus 450.
I loaded about 1,500 light lead SWC loads for practice in the derringer. Fun and it doesn't wear out your hand so fast.
Bless ya, Friend! That's all I needed! Heh heh...M2 Carbine said:I understand, but how about this.
Get the 45LC derringer. Then you'll have a accurate, powerful derringer to match your Taurus 450.
I loaded about 1,500 light lead SWC loads for practice in the derringer. Fun and it doesn't wear out your hand so fast.
This is gonna be fun...
Biker
Catshooter
Member
I recently fell into an ADC model 1 in .45 AR/Auto.
Can't say it's not powerful, as I can handload it to quite a bit over factory .45 'cause this same peice is chambered in .45 Win mag, so the strenth is there.
Will it replace my P 32s? Well, I find myself agreeing with M2.
I have taken apart a few P 32s lately and am a little concerned at how close to the edge they either function, or not. It doesn't seem to take much to stop one. Is eight .32s better than two .45s?
I can easily get a 185 gr. JHP to 1000 fps. Kick? Well sure it does, but who cares? I can also load a 200 gr SWC to 350 fps.
I've also been playing with a pure lead 315 SWC with a huge HP drilled into it.
Very fun gun.
Cat
Can't say it's not powerful, as I can handload it to quite a bit over factory .45 'cause this same peice is chambered in .45 Win mag, so the strenth is there.
Will it replace my P 32s? Well, I find myself agreeing with M2.
I have taken apart a few P 32s lately and am a little concerned at how close to the edge they either function, or not. It doesn't seem to take much to stop one. Is eight .32s better than two .45s?
I can easily get a 185 gr. JHP to 1000 fps. Kick? Well sure it does, but who cares? I can also load a 200 gr SWC to 350 fps.
I've also been playing with a pure lead 315 SWC with a huge HP drilled into it.
Very fun gun.
Cat
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Ditto on the advice against derringers. They aren't any smaller than a small .380 or .38 (and bigger than a .32), they are very slow to get going, very slow shot-to-shot, you are stuck with a capacity of only two rounds, and reloading takes a long time.
IWB carry is entirely safe as long as the gun is in the holster. The part that requires the most care is actually holstering the gun--if your finger (or part of the holster, or maybe a big shirt button) gets in the trigger guard, you could conceivably pull the trigger and shoot yourself in an indelicate place.
I personally carry an S&W 3913LS 9mm, usually at 1:00 IWB. This gun has a manual safety, so when reholstering, the safety is ALWAYS on, and my thumb is on the exposed hammer to make sure it stays down. That way even if I were to somehow screw up in a big way, leaving the gun off safe and reholstering with an object in the trigger guard, I could feel the hammer coming back to warn me "er, you might not want to do that." I flip the safety off as soon as it's holstered, since the 3913 is designed to be safety carried hammer down, safety off (redundant internal safeties, firing pin lock, etc.).
Holster is a Galco floppy suede IWB with a plastic retaining clip; I don't recall the model number. I usually insert and remove the gun/holster combo as a unit for safety and convenience reasons, with safety on and thumb on the hammer.
A revolver could also be safety reholstered with your thumb on the hammer, though you don't have the added benefit of a manual safety.
If you're not comfortable with a Kel-Tec or another safety-less gun for IWB carry, you might consider a Beretta Tomcat (.32); very small, not as effective as a .38, but better than a .38 derringer (accurate, fast into action, much higher capacity) and it has a manual safety and an exposed hammer. Just practice enough to ensure you can shoot very accurately. If you can put up with a wider gun, numerous S&W's and Sig 9mm's and .40's are available that are thin enough to carry IWB and have manual safeties.
I am wearing 32/30 jeans right now, but if I were carrying the 3913 at the moment, it'd be a little uncomfortable and I'd need to go to 33/30 or 34/30. If you can fit in a 32, you're not into the "middle age spread" domain yet. A smaller gun would be no problem, though.
IWB carry is entirely safe as long as the gun is in the holster. The part that requires the most care is actually holstering the gun--if your finger (or part of the holster, or maybe a big shirt button) gets in the trigger guard, you could conceivably pull the trigger and shoot yourself in an indelicate place.
I personally carry an S&W 3913LS 9mm, usually at 1:00 IWB. This gun has a manual safety, so when reholstering, the safety is ALWAYS on, and my thumb is on the exposed hammer to make sure it stays down. That way even if I were to somehow screw up in a big way, leaving the gun off safe and reholstering with an object in the trigger guard, I could feel the hammer coming back to warn me "er, you might not want to do that." I flip the safety off as soon as it's holstered, since the 3913 is designed to be safety carried hammer down, safety off (redundant internal safeties, firing pin lock, etc.).
Holster is a Galco floppy suede IWB with a plastic retaining clip; I don't recall the model number. I usually insert and remove the gun/holster combo as a unit for safety and convenience reasons, with safety on and thumb on the hammer.
A revolver could also be safety reholstered with your thumb on the hammer, though you don't have the added benefit of a manual safety.
If you're not comfortable with a Kel-Tec or another safety-less gun for IWB carry, you might consider a Beretta Tomcat (.32); very small, not as effective as a .38, but better than a .38 derringer (accurate, fast into action, much higher capacity) and it has a manual safety and an exposed hammer. Just practice enough to ensure you can shoot very accurately. If you can put up with a wider gun, numerous S&W's and Sig 9mm's and .40's are available that are thin enough to carry IWB and have manual safeties.
I am wearing 32/30 jeans right now, but if I were carrying the 3913 at the moment, it'd be a little uncomfortable and I'd need to go to 33/30 or 34/30. If you can fit in a 32, you're not into the "middle age spread" domain yet. A smaller gun would be no problem, though.
hillbilly, I had a similar experience. I had an NAA .22LR mini-revolver that I purchased for snakes (with .22 shotshells) when we lived in the boonies, and occasionally carried it out and about (loaded with CCI Stingers). The snake thing didn't pan out; the tiny shotshells didn't have enough oomph to kill even a small snake, so I decided that I wouldn't trust it against the 6' eastern diamondback that had previously been spotted on our property. And it was slow to shoot for defensive purposes, and I wasn't too sure about .22LR out of a 1 1/8" barrel as a defensive load either. I still admired the gun for its quality and workmanship, but decided that for me it was basically an expensive toy, and eventually sold it.
carpettbaggerr
Member
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The Hi-Standard derringer is flatter, and it's double action. Two pulls, two shots, no regripping necessary, no fine motor skills needed.
The minirevolvers can be very hard to cock and fire rapidly, especially with the more concealable birdshead grips.
BenEzra....roger that on the "expensive toy" bit with the NAA mini-revolver.
In fact, the guy who bought mine was wanting it specifically for a custom engraving project he hand in mind that would basically result in a piece of
"shootable jewelry" that would hang on a necklace, or may be get incorporated into a decorative belt buckle or something.
But the guy who bought mine was a lot more interested in the artistic potential of the piece after he engraved it than he was interested in it as a gun.
hillbilly
In fact, the guy who bought mine was wanting it specifically for a custom engraving project he hand in mind that would basically result in a piece of
"shootable jewelry" that would hang on a necklace, or may be get incorporated into a decorative belt buckle or something.
But the guy who bought mine was a lot more interested in the artistic potential of the piece after he engraved it than he was interested in it as a gun.
hillbilly
MICHAEL T
Member
Get a Kel tec and pocket carry. Only thing in pocket is holster and pistol nothing else. Lots of people do it daily eith out a problem. I have a Beretta 950 Its a 25 auto I would carry that before I carried any derringer,. I can dump all 9 shots while your trying to grip and cock one of those things.
Catshooter
Member
Yes but Micheal T, you're missing part of the point for some of us and that is while someone may dump all 9/8/7 of the mouse gun's .25/.32/.380s in your opponet as he cocks his .45 derringer, but would he notice them before he pulls the trigger?
He may, he may not, I don't know. That's the point that M2 brings up and I agree.
Of course it is thread drift, my point as the thread starter is discussing a .38 spl derringer.
Some questions just aren't easy.
*Sigh*
Cat
He may, he may not, I don't know. That's the point that M2 brings up and I agree.
Of course it is thread drift, my point as the thread starter is discussing a .38 spl derringer.
Some questions just aren't easy.
*Sigh*
Cat
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