Derringers

[Zaydok Allen]

Ive got one in 41 rimfire remington that I actually have ammo for. I also have one of the cobray ones in 45 colt/410. I dont find the recoil all that but I'm not really recoil sensitive. I cant imagine a scenario where I would be shooting at anyone more than 20 feet away and I could hit them with a 45 slug from that far ... then run. I dont find it impractical at all.

Just curious, but what size hands do you have? Or glove size?

I shoot a 460 mag regularly, and have no issues. It's because I'm larger and the grip on that gun fits me well. Small guns beat the hell out of me because they don't fit my boney hands well at all.

 

[yugorpk]

XL glove size. I shoot a birdshead ruger in 44 mag and even the full power loads dont bother me much. People are sensitive to recoil in different degrees. The 45 Colt derringer is a pussycat compared to the Ruger. The 410 is even less recoil to me.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

XL glove size. I shoot a birdshead ruger in 44 mag and even the full power loads dont bother me much. People are sensitive to recoil in different degrees. The 45 Colt derringer is a pussycat compared to the Ruger. The 410 is even less recoil to me.

Yep, that blows that theory out of the water.

 

[BLU]

I too am a retired LEO. I've carried different derringers my whole life... not exclusively, but, when I perceived a low threat level, (but who can really tell?!). I had a .45/.410 4.25" barrel derringer during an attempted car-jacking in Miami. As soon as he saw those two huge holes he ran off. The gun did what the gun was bought to do. What more could I ask of it? I now sometimes carry a Bond Arms derringer in different calibers. The 9mm shoots the most accurate, (ALL 50 rounds in the human silhouette target at 7 yards-not bad for a derringer), but I prefer the 4.25" .45/.410 for carry. I may switch to the .44 Special for a shorter barrel carry some days. It's a great gun and with all of the caliber choices, it's very versatile. As you are a LEO, I'd guess your situational awareness is at a level above most others. I should think you'd be wise enough to stay out of areas you'd feel more comfortable in if you were carrying your service piece. As far as throwing it at the bad guy? Ha! I had no intention of throwing it at the car-jacker... I intended to shoot him. The graveyards are full of people killed by a derringer and I'm pretty sure it wasn't from being struck by the derringer as it was thrown! As long as you don't try to take back a town from looters and rioters all by yourself with one, I think you'll find a derringer quite useful. There are owner comments at Bond Arm's website. At least one who used it in self-defense. In most situations I'm comfortable carrying the Bond Arms with me. Concealed carry is what we do for peace of mind. If you need a 17 round magazine in your pistol or a S&W .50 caliber revolver before you have that peace of mind, then by all means, carry that instead. I think you'll feel comfortable with a derringer most times. I know I do.

 

[Unkei]

I too am a retired LEO. I've carried different derringers my whole life... not exclusively, but, when I perceived a low threat level, (but who can really tell?!). I had a .45/.410 4.25" barrel derringer during an attempted car-jacking in Miami. As soon as he saw those two huge holes he ran off. The gun did what the gun was bought to do. What more could I ask of it? I now sometimes carry a Bond Arms derringer in different calibers. The 9mm shoots the most accurate, (ALL 50 rounds in the human silhouette target at 7 yards-not bad for a derringer), but I prefer the 4.25" .45/.410 for carry. I may switch to the .44 Special for a shorter barrel carry some days. It's a great gun and with all of the caliber choices, it's very versatile. As you are a LEO, I'd guess your situational awareness is at a level above most others. I should think you'd be wise enough to stay out of areas you'd feel more comfortable in if you were carrying your service piece. As far as throwing it at the bad guy? Ha! I had no intention of throwing it at the car-jacker... I intended to shoot him. The graveyards are full of people killed by a derringer and I'm pretty sure it wasn't from being struck by the derringer as it was thrown! As long as you don't try to take back a town from looters and rioters all by yourself with one, I think you'll find a derringer quite useful. There are owner comments at Bond Arm's website. At least one who used it in self-defense. In most situations I'm comfortable carrying the Bond Arms with me. Concealed carry is what we do for peace of mind. If you need a 17 round magazine in your pistol or a S&W .50 caliber revolver before you have that peace of mind, then by all means, carry that instead. I think you'll feel comfortable with a derringer most times. I know I do.

Hi BLU,
Thanks for the non judgemental post! Where did you Protect and Serve? I did my 35 years in Franklin County, the State Capitol....Columbus, Ohio. Dang it...you hit one lousy pedestrian and they never let you forget it! LOL! Actually she walked into my mirror! On the up side..I spent the last 12 years in plain clothes with an unmarked County car, which I took home at night! Quicker to respond than having to go pick up a pool vehicle.
I was going through an alley one day, when a 100 gallon trash can overturned right in front of me and a drunk rolled out of it! LOL! I stopped just in time..then laughed my A** off for about 10 minutes!
Be Safe!
Cheers,
Dave

 

[scaatylobo]

@ BLU

Retired LEO here too.

Carried LOTS & LOTS of BUG's.

Still own and carry a few derringers in many calibers.

Like the DAO models for pocket carry,they are faster than ANY draw IF you aware and have your hand on the gun when the threat appears.

YES, actually practice draw from pocket at range with live ammo [ AFTER lots of dry fire practice at home ].

High Standard .22 magnum

FIE .38 S/A derringer

North American .22 magnum

D/A .9 mm [ much like the HS ,but in larger caliber ].made by BTJ in Hamden Ct.

I carry them ESPECIALLY in winter in coat / jacket pockets as I cannot reach main gun under heavy clothing.

Summing it up,the derringer still has its uses and place in modern battery of S/D tools.

 

[mavracer]

I have an American Derringer in 45 Colt that I got to shoot cowboy side matches and just cause I wanted one. It weighs about what my LC9 does and while it's a smidge shorter it's wider thru the grip. While I'd be OK using one for a BUG it's nowhere near the capabilities of a good modern gun.

 

[golden]

Never carry old derringers like the remington

UNKEI,

You need to include info in this discussion on why the NRA dropped adds for Derringer pistols. The old ones like the REMINGTON and many of the copies were just plain unsafe to carry.
The NRA stopped carrying adds after several accidental shootings occurred when the guns were dropped on the floor and went off. The design of the Derringer pistols puts the center of gravity on the hammer and caused them to FALL ON THEIR HAMMER and fire with the rounds going up into the body of the shooter. Not what they were designed for.

I know that many of the more modern designs include safety's and should not go off, but I still have trouble seeing their appeal.
Except for the Hi STANDARD Derringer which was double action, you have to cock all these guns to fire them. That is dangerous in a self defense situation.
One of the big selling points of the 5 shot .38 Special revolvers and small double action and GLOCK style semi-autoes is the POINT AND SHOOT nature of their design.

Also, I have not found the grips on Derringers to be very ergonomic.
Those grips means you have to make it a good size to handle the recoil of a .44 or .45 round or your hand will take a battering.
If HOGUE or PACMAYR ever bring out a good COMPAC or BOOT GRIP, then this problem might be addressed, but you still have the single action design as a flaw for self defense.

You can produce a very small 2-shot Derringer in say .38 Special, but I can get a nearly or equally small semi auto like the BERETTA Tomcat I sometimes use.
The Derringer has 2 shots and needs to be cocked. The BERETTA fires 8 shots of .32 ACP in the same time and is less likely to be fumbled when cocking, you just pull the trigger and it is easier to control.

Jim

 

[Swing]

I've owned two Davis (.22 WMR and .38 Spl) and one Cobra (.38 Spl). All were complete and utter crapola of the worst kind. Totally worthless as defensive pieces and nearly so as a fun gun. No thanks.

I'll admit I'm tempted to give the Bond Arms a spin. Either in .357 Mag or .410-Bore. It is on my list, but some other gun project always pops up first.

P.S. I've had one NAA Mini in .22 WMR. It was a beautifully crafted little zipper. Alas, I traded it away. I can't say I really miss it, but it was nice for what it was.

 

[shooter1]

I've owned a .38 spl derringer as well as a Hi Standard in .22 mag. Still own the HS, it's a well made little gun. I kept the .38 for 3 or 4 years, and shot it quite a bit. To me, it was always just a novelty. I had a lot of fun playing with it, never carried it for defense as any other handgun I owned was a better choice. I had two NAA minis, one a Mag the other LR. Both were a lot of fun at the range. They are capable of a lot more than most give them credit for. I had no real use for them, so traded both off. I did carry the Mag version in my support side front pocket when I was in uniform. Since my retirement I sometimes carry a pocket .380, mostly in addition to a Glock 27. No plans to get back into the derringer business.
str1

 

[RugerBob]

I have a 38 spl Cobra and use it for side matches for cowboy shooting.

One question- does the same barrel fire the 1st round every time you reload?

 

[mavracer]

One question- does the same barrel fire the 1st round every time you reload?

On Bond, American Derringer and Davis/Cobra they alternate every time you cock the hammer. So if you shoot both and reload without cocking the hammer it'll shoot the barrels in the same order.

 

[KenW.]

My Bond .45 Colt / .410 is my desert atv riding gun. Great basin rattlers aren't biting me or my grandkids.

Not the answer to every occasion, but they fill a niche. And tney're just plain FUN.

As far as accuracy, google Bob Munden and you can find a video of him hitting a baloon at 65 yards. You have to practice.

 

[M1key]

C.O.P. 357

mutha....haven't owned it in 20 years.

Right thumb still doesn't work right. LOL

M

 

[entropy]

My experiences with derringers:

Hi Standard .22WRM: Loud as hell, fair accuracy, easy conceal.

Colt Thuer .22 Short: Cute, fun toy, single shot, didn't carry it.

Cobray Leinad .45LC/.410 SxS: Fun range toy, scary safety, carried it briefly.

I am still interested in the Heizer Double Tap in .45 ACP, but I'd have to find one at a low price before I'd buy.

 

[PRM]

I've owned my American Derringer Model 1 (.45/.410) for around 25 years. It has always done what I needed it for. It would not be my first choice for self defense because of its ammo capacity, and it is a close range gun. Still, I like it and it has found a permanent home. Several years back I did put pre-ban elephant ivory grips on it - why? Just because.

The NAA Black Widow is my favorite pocket gun. Small enough that you almost forget about it. Yet with the Magnum frame, two inch heavy barrel, enhanced sights and over sized grips, it is both a pleasure to shoot and accurate. Mine has the .22LR and Magnum cylinders.

I was running some errands Friday and when I got home (I live in a pretty isolated area - by choice) my dog was in a situation with a three and a half foot Copperhead. Dog was barking, snake was coiled and striking. All I had on me at that time was my Black Widow. One well placed .22 Magnum ended that little stand off. Regardless of what else I may be carrying, the little NAA is an always carry gun.

 

[bc38]

.38 fie. nice to just drop in the pocket and go. better than a harsh word and a mean look. at 10 yards i can keep both shots on a paper plate all day long. nice to know if im ever attacked by a paper plate. ya the trigger sucks, will try that back and down thing. not my first pick, but sometimes it just works.

 

[kBob]

WHen I carried a typical cheap German made 95 knock off sorta derringer in a jacket pocket, I always set it up to fire the BOTTOM barrel first.

This ment recoil was pretty much straight into my hand so there was little muzzle rize in the .38 Special and it was easier to get back on for the second shot.

Firing the top barrel first resulted in the gun ending up pointed skyward with the back of the dropped hammer against the web of the thumb and hand and needing to completely reposition my hand between shots.

Just encouraging folks to give it a try if you do have or try a 95 style pistol.

It is not unusual for the sights to be somewhat meaningless or only on for one barrel. Certainly at three yards this is not much of a factor. At 12 yards when that rattler is about to cause you a horrendous Vet bill or whatever it is nice to have some idea where the bullets will go.

I got soured on the guns back before the cross bolt safeties where commonly available as on the modern US guns. The original design really did have "issues" and I only have one now to show in classes. The only thing shot in it in the last 20 years has been wax loads or Speer Plastic training ammo.

I never had any doubt the Model 95 types could "put a hurt on somebody," the question though was "who?"

-kBob

 

[MedWheeler]

Not a true derringer, I know, but my first NAA micro-revolver should be headed out from Bud's now... .22LR 1.25" version.. just something to have and mess around with. I'm looking forward to it.

Bud's "recent price drop" to point was $200.

 

[Pokajabba]

Lots of people poo pooing the classic two shot derringer. If someone pointed a .410/.45 Bond Arms derringer at me, I wouldn't be able to hold my excretions I tell you what.

 

[golden]

Many deserve to be called poo!

Pokajabba,

Many of the early Derringers were just plain dangerous because of the risk of being fired accidentally if dropped. If this was just hearsay, then I doubt the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine would have dropped Derringer adds.

Also, with the originals in .41 rimfire, they were really weak. Skeeter SKELTON wrote about shooting a telephone poll with one and it would not penetrate.

The modern guns like the BOND have a safety and appear to be well made which makes them a much better gun, but you still have only 2 shots! Compare the bulk and weight of a double derringer with a GLOCK 42 and 7 shots.

I am sure that some people may argue that they only need 2 shots, but the history of firearms in police use (which are normally documented, unlike anecdotal evidence) shows that 2 shots are not enough and in some cases, fatally short of what is required. Assume from the start that in a real defense situation, only 1 out or 4 or 5 shots will hit your intended target and you can see where Derringer's start out with a real problem.

If someone wants to play with one at the range, that is fine, as long as they handle it safely (SEE ABOVE ABOUT ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGES), but I would rather play with a revolver or pistol at the range.

Jim

 

[Unkei]

Not a true derringer, I know, but my first NAA micro-revolver should be headed out from Bud's now... .22LR 1.25" version.. just something to have and mess around with. I'm looking forward to it.

Bud's "recent price drop" to point was $200.

Hey MedWheeler,
Nope..they are not a real derringer..but still really cool little revolvers! I have three! An original Mini, a Sidewinder, and a Pug..all in 22 Mag with a 22lr conversion cylinder for the Mini. I love these little revolvers and always carry the Pug...no matter which of my 26 other handguns I happen to be carrying on any particular day! Trigger pull on these is the same as on a derringer..ie..back and down! Wish I had the original Ranger too, as I am a Big fan of breaktop revolvers!
Cheers,
Unkei

 

[Unkei]

Lots of people poo pooing the classic two shot derringer. If someone pointed a .410/.45 Bond Arms derringer at me, I wouldn't be able to hold my excretions I tell you what.

Hi Pokajabba,
I've got the Bond Arms Snakeslayer with the extended grip and 3 barrels..the 45/410, the 45 Colt, and the 45 acp. It's a big chunk of metal for sure..but I love this modern and Safe derringer. It has not only a solid crossbolt safety, but also a rebounding hammer! Together, they make this derringer as safe from a Negligent discharge as any modern firearm can be!
And...unlike the Cobra and Davis derringers I own...you do not have to order any conversion and firing pin kits to switch out for any barrel and caliber you wish to mount! An important consideration! I usually carry it in a leather OWB holster as well as 1 other handgun. I am a retired LEO with 35 years of service and firearm experince, and I Do Not feel under gunned with this built like a tank derringer
Cheers,
Unkei

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I would not mind an accurate single shot Colt or double barrel Remington replica as an example of a historic curio; as a defensive gun, I replaced my .38 Davis derringer with a .38 J-frame snub revolver.

 

[Dan Forrester]

I owned a Bond Arms derringer in .410/.45 back over a decade ago. I had just gotten my CWP and thought i'd use it as a CCW. Within the first few hours it became apparent that it was nearly completely useless as a concealed carry weapon. The trigger was absolutely rediculous. Makes a polish P64 or a Nigant pistol look like an olympic target pistol.

Looking at it today with vastly more disposable income I realize that not every gun needs to have a use. I think the Bond Arms Derringer's are great guns and are extremely well made! For just out having fun plinking its actually probably a great choice. But I can't think of a good practical use for one. Some might say snakes but honestly if you have time to pull out any gun and shoot a snake you have time to just walk away. I will only shoot poisonous snakes if they are immediately around my house. And in that case I just go get the H&R .410.

What I would love to see would be something like a TC encore or H&R / NEF receiver but scaled down to .410. Then put on something like 6" barrel and some nice grips. I think something like that might even be useful since it would have a real grip and a good trigger. A factory AOW version ($5 stamp) with a smooth bore and screw in chokes would be nice too. Now thats what id like to see!

Dan