Des Moines shootout tape: why we practice moving while shooting.

[Matt G]

http://www.theiowachannel.com/video/2898424/detail.html

If you've got broadband, click on "video options" in the middle of the screen, and set to the bigger file, so that you can get the bigger window.

The following was forwarded to me from an online cops discussion group, an some good points are made:

TACTICAL TALK-DISCUSSION GROUP
> >
> > This video clip and story were submitted by Officer Merritt.
> >
> >
> > CLICK ON BELOW LINK TO WATCH PATROL CAR VIDEO OF CHASE ENDING IN
SHOOTOUT.
> >
> > http://www.theiowachannel.com/video/2898424/detail.html
> >
> > DISCUSSION POINTS:
> >
> > The 5 officers fired a total of 33 rounds hitting the suspect 29 times.
> > One officer is backing up creating distance while firing when he trips
on
> > a mound of snow. He is able to retain his weapon and get back into the
> > fight.
> >
> > Can you move and shoot? Do you practice combat shooting or just
> > marksmanship shooting?
> >
> >
> > Cops Release Video; Dramatic Chase, Shootout
> > Dateline: Des Moines - 3/5/2004
> >
> > theiowachannel.com
> >
> > In late January, police officers from several departments were involved
in
> > a deadly chase and shooting.
> >
> > Thursday, officers released new information and video from squad cars
that
> > was recorded during the two-county chase and shootout.
> >
> > Released one day after a grand jury determined that the officers were
> > justified in their shooting, the tapes show just how dangerous the
> > situation was -- and officials say it shows the officers had to defend
> > themselves against an aggressive gunman.
> >
> > The chase involved Ricky Garcia, 20, and five officers from four
different
> > agencies.
> >
> > Shortly before 1 a.m. on Jan. 29, a West Des Moines police officer
pulled
> > Garcia over for speeding. Garcia stopped but then took off.
> >
> > The officer learned from police dispatch that Garcia was wanted for a
> > probation violation and he had a weapons record.
> >
> > Garcia led police on a chase to Carlisle -- hitting speeds of 110 mph --
> > and ended in downtown Des Moines.
> >
> > Police tried several times to stop him, and reports show Garcia tried
> > several times to kill the officers before the chase ended. Authorities
> > said Garcia tried to run over a Warren County sheriff's deputy who tried
> > to put down stop sticks, and Garcia later rammed a West Des Moines
police
> > car.
> >
> > Polk County Sheriff's Deputy Dan Wignall finally stopped him near 2nd
and
> > Grand (pictured, left and below right), but Garcia came out of his car
> > shooting with a fully-loaded .22-caliber, nine-shot revolver. He shot at
> > Wignall but missed.
> >
> > Wignall shot at Garcia while backing away from him, tripping over a
> > snowpile and ducking behind a short plastic pole.
> >
> > Wignall hit Garcia, and Garcia continued shooting while he fell to the
> > ground. Four other officers arrived at the scene, and Garcia shot at
them
> > until his gun was empty.
> >
> > The five officers fired a total of 33 shots until Garcia stopped moving.
> >
> > Garcia was hit 29 times. None of the officers was shot.
> >
> > It was less than 30 seconds from the first shot fired to the cease-fire
> > call.
> >
> > Wednesday, a Polk County grand jury cleared all five officers in the
case.
> > It's standard procedure for Polk County Attorney John Sarcone to convene
a
> > grand jury in all police shootings.
> >
> > Officials said they released the graphic video this week to try and
> > prevent future shootouts.

 

[Matt G]

Really, 29 hits for 33 shots fired while being shot at is pretty dadgummed good, in anybody's book.











[Okay, I'll be the first to say it: "...especially cops!"]

 

[Preacherman]

Matt, when I click on your link, I get a blank screen with the Iowa Channel logo on top, and lots of text help info at the bottom if I scroll down, but no video, no link buttons, etc. Could you perhaps provide a link to the actual video file, so that I can load that directly into my video player?

 

[Tamara]

The 5 officers fired a total of 33 rounds...

*mutter, mutter* Oh, no, not again... Wait... for 29 hits?!? Hey! Nice shootin', Tex!

Looks like a good shoot (and good shooting!) in my book. Wignall's our new "Stay In The Fight!" poster boy, too.

 

[fastbolt]

This should probably be included in everyone's training & qualification, at least as far as L/E goes ...

We slowly started including a single move-while-shooting scenario, as well as a shoot-then-move-then-shoot scenario, in our basic qualifications a few years ago. This wasn't an easy thing to introduce at first, and it met with some resistance. We had to work with folks on an individual basis in order to help them successfully adapt, which is fortunately easy enough for us to do, as our qualifications are done one-on-one, instructor & shooter.

Listening to the majority of our folks, it seems that they had the most trouble getting past the idea of remaining standing still to shoot ... like the old "shooting lines" ... especially folks that originally came from other agencies. We also had to work with quite a variation of personal shooting technique preferences, but that's why they keep us around. We helped modify and/or adapt everyone's shooting techniques to meet the task ... and some folks even realized they desired a "change", which we were happy to accomodate.

After the initial grumbling, once the majority of the shooters discovered that they COULD shoot while moving, as well as shoot & move ... we started receiving a lot of positive feedback, as well as increased interest in each new series of qualification scenarios, and what they'd include. We even used a lot of feedback in constantly evolving our scenarios.

After a couple of years, we reached the point where we were having our folks moving while shooting at multiple targets ... moving in different directions (right-handed & left-handed shooters can encounter different issues when moving "against" the direction that's "easiest" due to their dominant hand orientation) ... shooting at moving targets ... one-handed & two-handed shooting while moving ... alternating from moving while making COM shots on multiple targets to pausing long enough to make multiple "precision" (head) shots on multiple targets after the COM shots ... shooting while moving to cover ... transitioning from shotgun to pistol while moving ... etc., etc. We've recently reached the point where we have more movement scenarios in our qualifications than stationary ones, and our folks seem to not only like it, but scores appear to be steadily improving ... We've even had some of our folks ASK to be able to try shooting at the moving targets while moving themselves, instead of pausing long enough to shoot at the moving target. It's working ...

In some recently mandated Perishable Skills training we even incorporated some "paired" shooting-on-the-move, having 2 shooters address different threat scenarios which involves lateral movement, as well as forward and retreating movement. We were also able to incorporate communication issues between paired shooters, and some other things we've been wanting to work on, but for which we lacked the time during regular qualification sessions.

It's pretty instructor-intensive to work with paired shooters and movement ... especially since we try to maintain the one-on-one instructor-shooter matchup, as well as an over-all RSO to maintain safety with regard to the rest of the folks waiting & observing, as well as watching the instructors busy with the 2 shooters. We're not a commercial school, only a small L/E agency (maybe a bit less than 400 armed) ...

Our folks seem to like it ... scores are generally improving ... the general "interest" level is rising ... and the best part? Most of our folks are walking away from the range with an increased level of confidence, which appears to be justified, that they can employ even their basic, reasonable level of skills to address as many evolving threat scenarios as we can devise, and under reasonable time constraints.

The folks that are interested in developing themselves and their skills beyond what we "require"? Well, if they're willing to come in on their own time, and we have the time available ... they get as much advanced help as they can absorb, and we'll often put some of them through the same practice that we put ourselves through ...

Now, all of us that work as firearms instructors and armorers do this as a secondary job, as we all have primary assignments elsewhere within our agency, and we do it on a very basic shoe-string budget. Our ammunition costs are rising a bit, though ...

I envy those agencies that have a full time range & range staff, and can only wonder what we might be able to do if we had the ability to do this full time ...

 

[strambo]

Good video, thanks for posting. That was some excellent shooting by the officers involved. 29 out of 33 shots!

Some comments on movement...Any movement is better than standing still. Out of the types of movement, I must admit that I have never liked moving directly to the rear. All the CQB training I've had always stressed closing with the enemy and moving/turning with a forward step. There are a number of reasons having to do with aggression and violence of action, also a very practical reason of making it less likely you will trip.

I've seen direct rear movement mandated for stages at IDPA matches and stressed at Thunder Ranch (from article.. I haven't been...yet). The problem is it doesn't make you much harder to hit (movement straight to the rear or front, no angle) and you have zero chance of seeing where you are going behind you. This officer found out the hard way, but luckily he fell into defilade cover down the hill and onto a soft surface. A curb wouldn't have been as forgiving.

The situation will dictate where to move, but I think forward/lateral, lateral, and rear/lateral movement are best because it makes you harder to hit as well as creating or closing the distance. Also even if your moving rearward at a 45 deg. angle, your peripheral vision can still pick up some of where you are going.

Again good shooting and performance under stress, I would hope to do as well as him in the situation, I just don't like moving directly backwards! What are everone elses thoughts on movement direction?

 

[fastbolt]

Hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all answer to direction of movement.

I think you're right in that the situation will probably dictate, or at least restrict, the person's choice(s). That being the case, it helps to try and encourage proper awareness skills during movement, as well as offer some easily adopted and implemented walking/stepping/movement variations.

One of our problems is that due to range safety considerations, except during times of single range use training ... like our perishable skills training ... ordinary range qualification doesn't allow for much direct(approach/retreat) or diagnal movement in relation to the threat target. That's just the way we're limited in how we're able to best utilize our outdoor range for qualification purposes.

We've tried the moving targets that approach/move away from the shooter, but that's not the same thing when it comes to instilling the ability to move on the part of the shooter, is it? Well, we can add lateral movement on the part of the shooter at the same time the target is moving in another direction, of course, but it's still not quite the same thing ... Not that it isn't a viable and valuable scenario on its own.

We've incorporated movement and shooting from a seated position, and deliberately positioned the chair to require the shooter to turn, step aside and "move" away from it in order to have freedom of movement. This requires some explanation to our folks, as "clearing" a chair in order to move around it wasn't as simple as some of our folks expected ... much to their surprise. They were too focused on the threat target and didn't pay sufficient attention to the environmental obstacle ... the chair. We expected that, and used a lightweight chair. Good thing, too.

Moving forward may be easier than backward, awareness-wise, but sometimes people simply tunnel-focus on a perceived immediate threat and miss the not-so-obvious threats underfoot, so to speak. Sometimes even moving at an angle backwards may not allow for someone to have a clear peripheral view of potential obstacles, even if they're working at trying to see, recognize and avoid them.

We've tried to work with our folk's foot placement and "walking" movement, to better allow them to "feel" a potential obstacle, and be able to address it, when moving either backwards or at a rearward angle that limits their vision. It's helped ...

We're still looking for better ways, though ...

 

[armoredman]

I wish my Dept would do this kind of training - not likely with our budget!

 

[Orion]

All the right people got to go home that night.

Excellent shooting. renews my faith in police training.

 

[zahc]

More people should play paintball. I still think I gain more practical reflexs on the paintball field than I do at the range.