Did I do the right thing?

[SA/DA FAN]

A few nights ago I was watching TV late at night. (about 12:30ish) I saw a flashlight sweeping my back yard and as I looked closer I noticed that it was actually someone IN my yard. I was torn. I had my KelTec in my pocket. (always do) I decided to go out to see what was going on with my hand in my pocket on the gun ready to draw. It turns out that it was the woman next door who's indoor cat had gotten out. I was pretty relieved and I'm glad I didn't call the police, but should I have? I did start the conversation from a place that would have given me the absolute advantage if it turned out to be an armed thief. Thoughts? Comments?

 

[TomJ]

If someone was in my yard at that time and I didn't know who they were before going outside, I would have called the police. Fortunately it was your neighbor and nothing came of it, but if it wasn't you're now in a potentail confrontation. I say this having kids, and I won't go outside under those circumstances leaving them alone in the house. On another note, our yard is well lit at night. If you don't have lighting you may want to think about installing some. Hopefully there's no next time, but if there is it will allow you to see who's in your yard.

 

[strambo]

Ideally, I would grab the phone and a gun and then try to observe first. At this point you would have seen it appeared to be the neighbor lady. If on observation you have no clue who they are, yes, call the police and let them handle it.

 

[Jeff White]

I think that the right response would depend on where you live and the police response time. I live in a rural area and minimum time to get a deputy here would be about 20 minutes unless one was in the vicinity. Of course around here anyone who had a legitimate reason to walk around the yard at that time of day would likely call first.

In town where you might only have a few minutes before an officer arrived it is probably best to wait and let the officer handle it.

 

[luzyfuerza]

My first thought would be to turn on the outdoor lights (if the motion detector didn't actuate automatically) and look around from inside the house.

Its tough to do this on the ends of most suburban houses, though. A peep-hole in a side door, combined with motion-activated lights, would help. A camera overlooking an end of the house that doesn't have windows would be good, too.

One thing's for sure, though: I don't plan on going outside to try to identify a potential threat.

I wouldn't call the police until I have actually identified a threat.

 

[Sam1911]

I once wrote something to the effect that going out to see what that disturbance was in your yard is literally betting your life that whatever it is isn't anything you need to go investigate. If it was anything you needed to be afraid of, you should have stayed inside.

That's kind of a tough Catch-22. It's really good to figure out ways to deal with this kind of thing before you actually have to do it. How can you see that back yard better? Can you wire lights and/or a switch inside so you can get a commanding view before you put yourself out there in harm's way? Is there a sheltered (concealment and/or cover) position from which you can call out a challenge to whomever's intruding? Can you harden the space to the point that you don't have to care that someone's doing something out there? I.e. so you don't feel you have to physically go out and stop them or investigate them?

 

[Armored farmer]

I like the dusk to dawn lights

A super-bright flashlight with strobe mode is a huge advantage in a situation like that.

 

[SA/DA FAN]

I once wrote something to the effect that going out to see what that disturbance was in your yard is literally betting your life that whatever it is isn't anything you need to go investigate. If it was anything you needed to be afraid of, you should have stayed inside.

That's kind of a tough Catch-22. It's really good to figure out ways to deal with this kind of thing before you actually have to do it. How can you see that back yard better? Can you wire lights and/or a switch inside so you can get a commanding view before you put yourself out there in harm's way? Is there a sheltered (concealment and/or cover) position from which you can call out a challenge to whomever's intruding? Can you harden the space to the point that you don't have to care that someone's doing something out there? I.e. so you don't feel you have to physically go out and stop them or investigate them?

Kinda the way I did it. The intrusion was actually at the side entrance to my back yard. The back yard itself is very well lit and I have a window to the side. Just not bright enough to tell, especially with the flashlight beam in front of the "intruder" and my aging eyes. I stepped out the back with the corner of my house as cover before I asked if everything was alright out here. It's rough. I still don't know if i did right or wrong. I would have felt terrible if I'd called the PD on this woman frantically looking for her cat but while I approached the "confrontation" as cautiously as possible there is a chance that I might not have come away unscathed.
Well 60 years without such a circumstance, I hope it's another 60 before I need to think about it again!

 

[Jeff White]

Catch-22. It's really good to figure out ways to deal with this kind of thing before you actually have to do it. How can you see that back yard better? Can you wire lights and/or a switch inside so you can get a commanding view before you put yourself out there in harm's way? Is there a sheltered (concealment and/or cover) position from which you can call out a challenge to whomever's intruding?

I have a dusk to dawn light. I have lights on the outside of the house I can turn on and I can challenge someone in the back yard from inside the house.

 

[herrwalther]

I don't think you did anything wrong. I have had people wander through my property in similar manners. If I had called the police every time, they would be out here probably once a week on false alarms. In my case, I observe from INSIDE the house. My cell phone, light, and firearm are always on me. So if something does turn out to be nefarious I can call the police or fight it out.

 

[boom boom]

My advice is get to know your neighbors and make sure that they have a phone number that they can call under such circumstances. We have phone numbers for most of our neighbors and we look out for each other even if we are only searching for a lost pet.

 

[strambo]

Don't think in terms of "right" and "wrong" it isn't like that unless you are a total moron. "Wrong" would be putting a bullet in a shadowy figure, or...calling the police because you heard a random sound outside. Both are idiotic over-reactions on either extreme.

In the middle of the extremes there are just choices and relative risks and odds. Not black and white or right/wrong, just the relative merits of what you choose. Use this experience to assess what happened and improve things for the future. No matter how well we do, we can always assess and do "better" next time.

 

[Malamute]

Did you have a light with you? The lights available today vastly outclass what was available 20 or more years ago in power, and are small pocket size, meaning you can conveniently have them on you virtually all the time.

It gets dark every day, about half the 24 hour cycle is darkness. Many have a gun all the time, but no way to positively identify something they may REALLY need to shoot for half the time they have the gun. I carry a light on me all day every day, and use it far more than my guns. Being able to positively identify something you really may NOT want to shoot is also very important.

There was a sad tale a couple years ago in Georgia I believe. Guy saw someone outside in the dark in the yard. He went out, IN THE DARK, and confronted the person, gun in hand. So far as anyone can tell, he wasn't in any danger staying in his house. Scary person in the dark started walking towards him, disregarding commands to stop. Guy shoots person in the dark. Person is dead. Turns out he was an Alzheimer's patient that wandered away from home, and likely had no idea what the guy was saying, or that it was potentially an issue, he was just lost and confused. Identifying things in the dark is important. Don't rely on house lights, power can go out, and you cant control them like a hand held light with the power of a dozen (small) suns in your pocket.

 

[Kleanbore]

I decided to go out to see what was going on with my hand in my pocket on the gun ready to draw.

As has been pointed out, that is seldom a good idea. As Sam put it, "going out to see what that disturbance was in your yard is literally betting your life that whatever it is isn't anything you need to go investigate. If it was anything you needed to be afraid of, you should have stayed inside".

I did start the conversation from a place that would have given me the absolute advantage if it turned out to be an armed thief. Thoughts? Comments?

That "absolute advantage" may or may not have kept you from being seriously injured. It may have led to your injuring an innocent. And your having headed out to "investigate" could be interpreted as your having headed out to confront, which could well have worked against you in a defense of justification. No, I do not think that you "did the right thing". Stay inside. Personally, someone with a flashlight in my yard would make alert to what might happen next, but I do not see myself calling the police for that.

 

[herrwalther]

Did you have a light with you? The lights available today vastly outclass what was available 20 or more years ago in power, and are small pocket size, meaning you can conveniently have them on you virtually all the time.

Good points all around. One of the rules is "Know your target." You can't know your target if you can't identify or see it. Your target could turn out to be a threat. A neighbor. Or family member. Or a wild animal. Not every solution results in a gun shot or call to the police. My pocket flashlight puts out 470 lumens on high power and 2 lower settings. High enough to light up the yard and dim enough to see my way around the house without turning on a light.

 

[Coltdriver]

I guess it really depends on where you live. Crime happens everywhere, but so do innocent acts. We have lights with motion sensors in our back yard and they light up the entire yard. They will detect a small animal easily. I may just live in a particularly peaceful place but I have never had an armed confrontation nor have I ever pulled a weapon. One of my biggest fears is going overboard and killing some innocent soul or a family member. Having a gun in your hand brings a grave responsibility and shooting anyone will change your life, likely forever.

I would have not gone out there with a gun in my hand. If it was a bad guy you just risk getting shot first. You said you were in a safe place. I would have tried to figure out what was going on from a safe place too then decide what to do. Just my two cents worth. Glad to hear it was nothing.

 

[azrocks]

I once wrote something to the effect that going out to see what that disturbance was in your yard is literally betting your life that whatever it is isn't anything you need to go investigate. If it was anything you needed to be afraid of, you should have stayed inside.

Many people don't have the luxury of letting unknown disturbances outside their walls go uninvestigated. I grew up in the country, where dealing with varmits, predators, and the occasional wandering drunk were common occurrences. There are plenty of disturbances that necessitate investigation / rectification, but unless you were gunning for the spot of town loon, you wouldn't call the police for them. They're things that have to be dealt with, so you deal with them. And you accept the fact that one of those times, the noise might be someone aiming to do you harm. That's when the rifle you carry to dispatch whatever might need dispatching comes in handy yet again.

The best of both worlds, in my mind, is incorporating a surveillance system that covers everything you can't afford to lose. But for many, this is neither affordable nor practical.

Dogs work well.

 

[Sam1911]

Many people don't have the luxury of letting unknown disturbances outside their walls go uninvestigated. I grew up in the country, where dealing with varmits, predators, and the occasional wandering drunk were common occurrences. There are plenty of disturbances that necessitate investigation / rectification, but unless you were gunning for the spot of town loon, you wouldn't call the police for them. They're things that have to be dealt with, so you deal with them. And you accept the fact that one of those times, the noise might be someone aiming to do you harm. Hopefully you prepare accordingly.

And it's a really tough thing to unpick and improve. One of the most concrete takeaway messages we could come to is that, like in so many other areas, human beings often get away with really unwise behavior for a really long time. Look at seat belts, cigarettes, PPE, bike helmets, OSHA rules, and so forth for plenty of examples of where it's taken decades or more of really boring, sober statistical study to finally convince most of us that doing whatever it is we and ours always did, handling things the way we've always handled them, and just "being a man" about life's risks actually isn't the best way to live.

Fortunately, as you mention, technology is providing ways of extending our eyes and ears -- and the powers of law enforcement to aid us -- in ways that don't make us vulnerable.

 

[Kleanbore]

Many people don't have the luxury of letting unknown disturbances outside their walls go uninvestigated. I grew up in the country, where dealing with varmits, predators, and the occasional wandering drunk were common occurrences. There are plenty of disturbances that necessitate investigation / rectification, but unless you were gunning for the spot of town loon, you wouldn't call the police for them. They're things that have to be dealt with, so you deal with them.

If it is unknown and outside, one should "investigate" from indoors. If it is a varmint or predator and if you have poultry or other life-stock at risk, it would be appropriate to deal with it. If it is a wandering drunk, just what do you think you would do with him?

If you don't know what it is, and if it turns out to be one or more than one dangerous person, heading out is an exceptionally risky thing to do. You become the quarry while you think that you are the one investigating, and the cards are stacked against you.

Security cameras are a very low-cost risk mitigation toolset in comparison with anything that happens to the person who traipses out into the unknown thinking that he is somehow protected by the gun in his hand.

 

[azrocks]

If it is unknown and outside, one should "investigate" from indoors. If it is a varmint or predator and if you have poultry or other life-stock at risk, it would be appropriate to deal with it. If it is a wandering drunk, just what do you think you would do with him?

If you don't know what it is, and if it turns out to be one or more than one dangerous person, heading out is an exceptionally risky thing to do. You become the quarry while you think that you are the one investigating, and the cards are stacked against you.

Security cameras are a very low-cost risk mitigation toolset in comparison with anything that happens to the person who traipses out into the unknown thinking that he is somehow protected by the gun in his hand.

I wouldn't do anything with the wandering drunk. That was a poor example. But the point remains the same... there are many disturbances that require investigation, and until you investigate, you don't know what the nature of that disturbance is. A farmer can't just sit back and hope everything's OK every time his livestock acts up, nor can he call the cops.

I agree completely that cameras are an excellent option when possible.

 

[Kleanbore]

... there are many disturbances that require investigation, and until you investigate, you don't know what the nature of that disturbance is.

Of course, but unless one has some confidence about what that disturbance is not sued by, one had better not go outside. The gun will not protect the person carrying it; the farmer has no idea where the danger lies; and any miscreants will know from where the farmer will come--one may be watching the door just for that purpose.

A farmer can't just sit back and hope everything's OK every time his livestock acts up, nor can he call the cops.

Of course, but he or she should be able to form a pretty good idea about whether the noise has to do with a fox in the henhouse or a two-legged troublemaker. In the case of the latter, one person going out to investigate would be at a serious disadvantage; there would be the question of what to do if a confrontation should take place; and should the farmer end up employing deadly force after having ventured out to check on property, his or her defense of justification could be faced with some real problems.

It's too bad, but for some decades now farmers have had to put up huge bright lights that block the night sky. When I was a kid, the doors were left open, and no one would even think about picking up a gun to go outside.

I agree completely that cameras are an excellent option when possible.

If there is electricity it is possible. If there is wi-fi it's easy.

 

[herrwalther]

Of course, but he or she should be able to form a pretty good idea about whether the noise has to do with a fox in the henhouse or a two-legged troublemaker. In the case of the latter, one person going out to investigate would be at a serious disadvantage; there would be the question of what to do if a confrontation should take place; and should the farmer end up employing deadly force after having ventured out to check on property, his or her defense of justification could be faced with some real problems.

I am a fan of strategy. Gun in hand, eyes out the window is a good way to remember it. There is give and take in a potential home defense scenario. Don't go out unless necessary. But that doesn't mean cower inside with a phone in hand to call police to handle something on property. I have had dogs fight in my yard at night, sometimes banging against the house. Roused out of sleep it sounds like someone kicking in the door. Peek out the window, look around. No people. Just some dogs fighting over trash. Sometimes I can get them to run off just by opening the window, or popping them with a BB gun. Not a police response. Now if I ever see a shadow with 2 legs walking around, I won't be running out at all.

 

[Kleanbore]

I am a fan of strategy. Gun in hand, eyes out the window is a good way to remember it. There is give and take in a potential home defense scenario. Don't go out unless necessary. But that doesn't mean cower inside with a phone in hand to call police to handle something on property. I have had dogs fight in my yard at night, sometimes banging against the house. Roused out of sleep it sounds like someone kicking in the door. Peek out the window, look around. No people. Just some dogs fighting over trash. Sometimes I can get them to run off just by opening the window, or popping them with a BB gun. Not a police response. Now if I ever see a shadow with 2 legs walking around, I won't be running out at all.

Excellent strategy, but cameras are even better.

We have them, and we live in town.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Many great points of view here and I like reading them all. I lived literally in the middle of nowhere on 130 acres bordered by Forest Service land on all 4 sides for quite a long time and the closest neighbor was over a mile away. I had the coyote/bear/weasel/fox and a bobcat actually in the hen house as well as 2 legged predators to deal with- ranging from arson, poaching, trespassing, climbing my trees to get mistletoe, both day and night and even dumping bodies.
I would have to say that the response has to be based on where you live and local laws. What I did not see here is the fact that the danger was outside. What is your local law? Now that I am a flat-lander the rules are different. It sucks to feel like you might be a prisoner in your own home, but without being 100% sure who/what is out there and what the threat is, I would be very cautious in making the decision to go in to my yard to confront anyone. Things happen quick and bad guys often have the law on their side even when they are bleeding out in your back yard, even if trespassing. If someone would be in my yard now, I would watch and wait... If that door opens by force, well the rules and laws change to my favor. It makes me angry that we have to be so worried about the what if's. If someone is in your fenced yard, it should be on them as to the outcome but that is not the way it works in most jurisdictions.
Just my 0.02

 

[Hanzo581]

Generally speaking, leaving your house increases your risk exponentially, so no, I would not have gone outside. But, I likely would have yelled at them from a window while obscured asking what the hell they were up to.