Did You CCW before it was LEGAL?

[Navy joe]

I carried without a permit for several years even when permits were readily available as my silent protest that no one would ever know about. It trains you up fast to realize you are breaking the "law" every step you take, good for when worse times are upon us and you have to be covert in the face of authority. Three years, full-size guns, never made, walk up and talk to a cop like it was nothing. I got married and did the responsible thing to help my wife avoid incurring my legal costs by getting permitted.

I don't think it is okay to break a law you don't agree with. For example I speed, it's wrong, I'll pay when I get caught. I think it is perfectly okay and a duty to go about your business acting like an immoral law (gun bans, CCW) do not exist. Same as speeding though, I'd pay if I had gotten caught.

More recently, I still travel to states where carry is verboten, sometimes I have returned from interstate travel and the place where I store my guns before going onto a federal installation is closed. I (gasp!) eat in establishments that serve booze. What to do, rules or safety of the family? I take the 5th there.

 

[Hook686]

Yesterday, 11:06 AM #14

Alex45ACP

Senior Member

in reoly to:

As a point of discussion - is obeying the law a situational thing? Does one obey it only if one agrees with it?

wrote

Depends on the law. I don't recognize that laws restricting basic human rights apply to me.

A recent article in Sacramento indicated the California Hiway Patrol estimates 70% of all drivers are driving greater than the 65 MPH freeway posted speed at any given time . Is the speed limit on hiways/freeways a basic human right ?

Which laws one tends to follow, which one tends not to obey strikes me as rather arbitrary and caprecious ... even as acknowledged by a long time member of LE. Amazing ! I don't think Glock can build guns fast enough ... it seems to me we are moving back to a feudal form of government, maybe to re-live the Dark Ages once again.

Do you think Nathan Hale really said, "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." ?

Hook686

 

[Alex45ACP]

Which laws one tends to follow, which one tends not to obey strikes me as rather arbitrary and caprecious ...

Nope. It's actually pretty simple. All you have to do is ask yourself:

"I know this is illegal, but does it actually hurt anyone else if I do it anyway?"

If the answer is no, I don't recognize that the law applies to me.

 

[Ryder]

What good is freedom if it's not practiced? Freedom is not meant to be an abstract illusionary concept.

"Shall not be infringed" = Lots of illegal laws on the books.

 

[larry starling]

NO, Open carry ok here in NC.....

 

[denfoote]

Open carry only!!!

Arizona was an open carry only state.
There were no signs on business anywhere because it was not written into the law that they could disallow firearms in their establishments!!!
The only place you could not carry was in a bar or anywhere disallowed by federal law.
There was no CCW law here. Nobody thought it was necessary!!
I didn't bother!! I open carried and nobody gave a damn!!
With the advent of concealed carry, the anti gun politicians got it written that you could exclude guns from entering your business. Signs went up everywhere!! It was worse than before!!

Sometimes I wish it was back to the way it was.

 

[M99M12]

I live in Vermont.

 

[Hardtarget]

I knew one or two that carried. I think I like the " fifth" on this. I think the poll is... interesting.
Mark.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Well, sorta. In NY I had a carry permit, but with all sorts of restrictions placed on it by the issuing authority. It was a NY State permit, but they have different issuing authorities depending on where you live, and where I lived the issuing authority would grant the concealed carry permit, but then, unless you were a very prominent citizen (read celebrity or politically connected) you would have all sorts of restrictions on it, such as you can carry it concealed on your person and loaded, but only to and from the range or some other activity such as to a gunsmith or whatever, so long as the purpose of carry is not self defense. Well, don't you know that I was ALWAYS on my way to either a gunsmith or a gun range, even if I only occasionally actually made it there (actually, I shot quite often, just not every day). Got this permit when I was 19 back in 1980. Used it as a regular CCW license ever since, but now live in Florida, where I have the real thing. Nice to finally live in a free state.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

As a point of discussion - is obeying the law a situational thing? Does one obey it only if one agrees with it?

In some cases it's situational. What if they passed a law that said no one over age 35 was allowed to eat anything but rice? Would you obey it? It's the law, after all. You would probably not obey it because it is an obvious violation of your right to eat what you like. Could be serious health consequences to obeying such a law too. Same situation here.

 

[thorn726]

ok call me an idiot, but can we expand on this-

The CC bill was signed in 12/95

this is national? i dont get it, searching tells me it is a state by state thing, was it illegal everywhere to ccw at some point?

 

[Zach S]

thorn, I was referring to the NC concealed carry bill.

 

[NeoCon]

Yes, but only for a summer when I was in Wyoming.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Ummmm.....NO!
That would have made me one of the bad guys! Right?


It doesn't seem wise to even imply engaging in illegal activity on a public internet forum.

But that is just my 2 centavos!

 

[m39fan]

AFAIK, It's been legal since before I was born! I love Indiana!!!!! (Just be careful getting into basketball arguments with us!!! )

 

[XLMiguel]

I figure these's a very fundamental difference between those who CCW'd for self-defense vs. those who carry with criminal intnet/purposes. Folks who carry purely for SD reasons aren't out to hurt anybody or commit crimes (beyond the Catch-22 of a stupid law that makes CCW without a permit for SD illegal, esp. when one can't get a 'permit'). As many have noted, it's better to have and not need, and if caught, one could go with an affirmative defense under the doctirne of competing evils, i.e it may have been 'illegal' to be carrying the gun, but the alternative was being killed/maimed.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

defense of necessity

Would this be an area where a "defense of necessity"
would apply? Where law conflicts with justice, an
otherwise illegal act may be justified under a defense
of necessity.

 

[Missouri Mule]

But!
None the less, if for whatever reason you are caught, you are a criminal and will be treated as such. Unfortunately intent on our part, being the good guys, doesn't mean much.

The good news for the criminals is they don't have to be concerned....they are already criminals. Right?

SO!
All I am saying is some of you folks seem to be talking about walking a very fine line in a very public forum.

Who knows exactly who is monitoring this discussion and logging ISP data?.

If your liscense plate can be read from a satellite it shouldn't be too far fetched to think your , anonymous log ins and firewalls and any other so called internet security is actually impenatrable to those who know?

 

[kaiserworks]

Many years ago I lived overseas in a place that had high crime, crooked cops and was impossible to legally own a handgun. A trusted friend sent me a beat up old Sig 225. I carried it illegally for a year and only had to "show" it once when I was being followed by a couple thugs on my nightly walk home from a train station. They made it clear they "plans" for me which changed when they saw I was armed, and in that neck of the woods, most thieves would just as soon cut your throat as rob you. That situation made my illegal carry well worth breaking the law.
Back in the states and living in lovely San Diego, I only carried concealed if I was going to LA but usually kept a gun in the car at all times. Now I have a CCW and my carry habits have not changed.

P.S. That old 225 was left in the care of my foreign landlord, a retired merchant seaman. A super cool guy, he had an MP40 still in the grease with 3 mags that he picked up as a kid at the end of WWII. Of course that was competely illegal but he laughed and basicly said his version of Molon Labe!