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Would you donate money for legal defense of self-defense shooter?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Bill_Rights, Apr 9, 2009.

?

Would you donate money for legal defense of self-defense shooter?

  1. Yes

    92 vote(s)
    47.2%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    9.2%
  3. Maybe

    85 vote(s)
    43.6%
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  1. Bill_Rights

    Bill_Rights Member

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    I vote "Yes".

    Here are the (hypothetical) facts of the case:
    - The shooting was in self defense, near as we'll ever know.
    - The shooter was one of us, i.e., a registered THR member in good standing with the Moderators.
    - The request for legal defense funds came via a THR post.
    - The shooter was either not charged by police or was acquitted of any crime in a court of criminal law.
    - BUT the person who got shot or his/her family sued the shooter for an outrageous amount of money, let's say > $250,000.
    - There was some verifiably secure way to donate your money and be sure it would ONLY be used for legal/court costs (which, unfortunately would involve paying lawyers)
    - Any excess money left over after the civil hearing(s) would be donated to the NRA or _____________ (you name it charity, organization, etc.) NOTE: I AM ASSUMING IT WOULD BE TOO DIFFICULT TO RETURN THE EXCESS MONEY TO THE DONORS, IN PROPORTION TO WHAT THEY GAVE - I know that would be ideal, but let's be real.

    You could add your own qualifications, such as:
    - shooter was (or not) inside his own home/domicile
    - shooter was (or not) a CCW/CHP holder

    Just curious, a) to see if a post/poll like this would be allowed on THR now, b) if a post on THR asking for money after the shooting would be allowed and c) if any significant number of us would support our brothers in arms in this fashion?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  2. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Any excess money left over after the civil hearing(s) would be donated to the NRA or _____________ (you name it charity, organization, etc.)"

    Returned to donors. Not donated.

    John
     
  3. slzy

    slzy Member

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    matter of fact,have already done so.
     
  4. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    there was a scenario like that a while ago. I'd have to be sure the person was in the right, wasn't just recklessly breaking laws, etc.
     
  5. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I voted maybe, before I read your scenario. I voted maybe because I was thinking; "total stranger" vs. a friend or family member. One of our community members would likely get a donation from me if I could afford it, and I imagine that I could, but I would really want a lot of information about the sitch and would prefer a ground swell of support to participate in.

    However, being in good standings with the mods is a negative.:p
     
  6. lucky_fool

    lucky_fool Member

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    I would if I thought he was in the right.

    I wouldn't have a problem with him keeping any leftover funds, either. Who's to say what his expenses might be well after the court case is over? Therapy ain't cheap.
     
  7. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    I wouldn't donate, but if he lived in a jurisdiction to which I was admitted to practice, I'd offer a substantial discount on legal fees. Very substantial.
     
  8. Bill_Rights

    Bill_Rights Member

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    CoRoMo said
    As OP I ask, did I get the lay-out of the poll wrong? How could I avoid this happening? This is my first poll post.
     
  9. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I would be more likely to respond to a similar effort pushed by a local organization for a local case. In such a case I might also be available to donate any other time or skills that might be helpful.
     
  10. desert gator

    desert gator Member

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    I would just hope it took place in a state like utah where you can not be taken to civil court for shooting someone in self defense
     
  11. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    More than likely doesn't, as he mentioned it was justified in a criminal court yet the party still got sued.

    It just appalls me people would have the nerve to sue someone defending themselves against an armed attacker. Sick.
     
  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Not your fault. Your poll is perfect, but I'm a lazy SOB that jumps the gun and pulls the trigger before I should.;)

    Sometimes, polls will have "READ MY POST BEFORE VOTING" in the title to catch our attention because members like me will fire without knowing what we're aiming at. It happens. Just chalk it up as the 'margin of error'.

    Given the time to think it over, my vote might still be the maybe option because I'm hesitant to send my hard earned money to someone I don't know. But like I posted earlier, a member here would likely be donated to, especially if I'm at all familiar with them and almost definitely if there is a good 'ground swell' effort happening.

    A lot of us here have sort of embraced fellow members that are in our area or at least residents of the same state. When something like this happens, you'd likely have another member or two backing up the individual's story and vouching for their situation. When that takes place, everyone is more comfortable joining in as opposed to a new member joining the forum for the specific reason of soliciting money.
     
  13. Birdhunter1

    Birdhunter1 Member

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    My view on this would be the same view I hold on bailing people out of jail.... 'if I had done the same thing for the same reasons' then yes I will help.

    Example: A guy's kid is attacked by a viscous dog, kid goes to hospital, the guy shoots the dog and the guy goes to jail for animal cruelty.... Yup, I'd be the first partisan of that cause!
     
  14. N003k

    N003k Member

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    I would just chance the poll name to something like "In the scenario presented below, would you donate money for the legal defense of the shooter?"

    I'll admit I voted before reading it also, but my response was yes, which wasn't changed by the scenario presented. Just didn't figure there would be a well laid out scenario to go with it.
     
  15. Bill_Rights

    Bill_Rights Member

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    mljdeckard (or Anybody),

    What did you mean about
    We have at least a couple of "local" groups here in Virginia:
    VCDL - Virginia Citizens Defense League and VGOC - Virginia Gun Owners' Coalition. Is that the kind of local group you're thinking about? But these are state-wide and I think they promote mostly SA political action. I don't hear of them getting involved at the city, town, neighborhood level. But maybe they do. Anyway, please elaborate.
     
  16. jack404

    jack404 Member

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    Did so last year and 2005 i think

    cheers

    jack
     
  17. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    VCDL does local work, too.

    www.vcdl.org/static/accom.html

    Examples from the list:

    - Engineered a Change in Fairfax County's "Hunting Laws" to Exempt Persons Lawfully Carrying Firearms For Personal Safety From County Hunting Restrictions


    - Derailed "Operation Scarlet Letter" in Bath County


    - Stopped a Proposed City Gun Ban in Harrisonburg
     
  18. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    DoD: Let me see if I have this right...You wouldn't donate - but you'd be willing to make some money off it?

    You're not a "Duke"...you're a real "Prince"! :neener:

    I voted "maybe", because it would depend entirely on the circumstances and my perception of them...

    ...and because I voted before I read the scenario. My bad.
     
  19. Straight Shooter

    Straight Shooter Member

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    Hmm this is an interesting idea. I like it. But what if was to be taken a step further?

    Instead of it being a grass roots effort on a case by case basis. What if there was an organized group of attorneys nation wide who, as the Duke said, would take cases as described by the OP at a discounted rate, funded by donations?
     
  20. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    I voted maybe. There are a lot of factors to consider. I donate money based on my gut feeling, which is impossible to quantify in a hypothetical.
     
  21. Bill_Rights

    Bill_Rights Member

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    Straight Shooter,

    I am an NRA member, and the NRA does have something like what you say:
    However, I forgot how it works - been a long time since I read my membership documents. I'll look it up and post about it, though somebody on this Forum surely knows off the top of their head.

    It is off-topic (and I am the OP!), but I believe the NRA will also/especially help with the criminal trial. I limited this poll to the civil suit phase, just to eliminate the question of the shooter's guilt/innocence, so as to test the minds and hearts of the THR members when the shooter is guaranteed innocent.

    Also, I remember reading in the back of Combat Handguns a few months ago an ad from a national legal defense group. However, I think that was subscription based, i.e., kind of an annual retainer every member pays. Not at all a "charity" or grass-roots effort. More like insurance. Whatever works! I'll try to mention that organization too. Correction Added 10Apr'09, 9:07AM EDT: I was thinking of the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network (web site). They do not guarantee to pay for legal fees but say they do:
    -Educating members about the legalities of using deadly force for self-defense and how to interact with the criminal justice system after a shooting.
    -Creating a nationwide network of attorneys and legal experts which the member can draw upon in the event of a self-defense shooting.
    -Granting financial assistance from a separate non-profit foundation to members who are facing unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident.

    The membership organization sounds like a worthwhile group to check out but is not directly on-topic. The "separate non-profit foundation" could be a vehicle for collecting and paying out our donations, but it is limited to members of the parent organization -OP

    But, as OP, I was thinking more along the lines of somebody getting into such a situation early/unexpectedly, before they knew they needed legal protection and pre-arranged for it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2009
  22. wankerjake

    wankerjake Member

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    Possibly, depending on the exact circumstances. Very likely if I thought it was justified.
     
  23. 71Commander

    71Commander Member

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    I see politics in your future. Maybe as the new Mayor of Chicago.
     
  24. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    rainbowbob: "DoD: Let me see if I have this right...You wouldn't donate - but you'd be willing to make some money off it?"

    You bet. I win, he wins, we all win. And I said, at a very substantial discount. See, I like gun cases. Much more fun than tax cases.
     
  25. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    71Commander: "I see politics in your future. Maybe as the new Mayor of Chicago."

    Nah, they'll have to take King Richard II out of that office the same way they took his father out: feet first. And it sure as shootin' won't be me that does that.
     
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