Difference between .410 slug and .45 Long Colt?

[tanksoldier]

Many weapons can chamber both .410 and .45 Long Colt.

The Winchester 9410 will chamber shot loads and Foster-style slugs.

Winchester makes a Model 94 in .45 Long Colt.

What is the difference between a .410 slug and a .45 LC load? Range? Projectile weight?

I'm looking at the weapons for self-defense and light hunting (mule deer/ white tail at the most).

 

[Jim Watson]

Totally inadequate.
A .410 slug weighs 1/5 oz = 88 grains and claims 1830 fps for 651 ft lb. It is down to 1318 fps, 338 ft lb by 50 yards. This is substantially less powerful than a M1 carbine with worse trajectory, accuracy, and velocity loss per yard. About like the old .32-20 high velocity rifle only load.

A standard .45 Colt will probably get its 250 grain bullet to 1100 fps out of a carbine and that is without even going to the big Buffalo Bore loads. Fine for deer at moderate range. But I'd rather have a .30-30 in that gun.

 

[kudu]

Do not shoot a .45LC in a gun chambered for .410 shotgun.

A .410 slug measures about .387 give or take a few thousands. A .45LC has a slug diameter of .452. It will cause a big BOOM in a .410 shotgun.

A few select guns, most notably the T/C Contender pistol chambered in .45LC will shoot the .410 shells very well. It has a choke to install for their use though. It must be removed to shoot the .45LC.

The overall dimensions of the 2 shells are so close that they are interchangable, but that can be deadly.

A .45LC has the advantage in performance. Average bullet weight for it is about 225-250 grains. The .410 slug weighs in at about 110 grains. You may have a bit more velocity out of the .410, but more energy out of the .45LC.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

"Totally inadequate"...sorry, not buying that.

Like any other ammunition out there, .410 is available in a variety of loads. Such as the Federal or Winchester 1/2 ounce loads.

1/2 ounce being almost 220 grains.

I don't know what the muzzle velocity of these would be out of a Judge, but considering they are getting in the neighborhood of 800 to 900 fps using 2.5 inch 000 Buck out of a 4 inch barrel, I would assume that similar velocities would be attainable using the 1/2 ounce slug.

http://mcb-homis.com/judge/

That puts it comfortably in the same range as the .45 acp.

What load is used matters. And it matters a great deal.

And if it can penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs, then it's a good load.

"Totally inadequate" would NOT be a term I would use for the .410 out of a Judge.

And coming from a long gun, it would be an even poorer descriptor.


As with any other choice for SD, one must make the choice wisely as well as within their means. And certainly, even a "poor" combination of caliber/gun is better than NO caliber or gun.

 

[Virginian]

It seems the OP is looking for info before purchasing, and for what he has outlined I would deem a 410/45LC combo gun a poor choice. A decent 20 gauge pump shotgun with good slugs would do about as well as the 45 for deer - better than the 45/410 combos I have seen - and be better for defense too. Also probably available quite a bit cheaper.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The opening post speaks of guns chambered in .410 and .45 Colt, like the Winchester 9410 in .410 and the Winchester 94 in .45 Colt, and asked which was better of the two guns for deer. That was the question. I don't think the 9410 is billed as .45 Colt/.410 hybrid.

A .45 Colt cartridge from a carbine is good for deer at brush ranges.

A .410 slug from a shotgun is good for occasional coyotes at similar ranges. A .45 Colt from a carbine would be better. An M1 carbine (110gr softnose hollowpoint, 1950 fps velocity, 930 ft/lb energy) would be better than a .410 slug.

Either the Winchester 9410 or the discontinued .410 Marlin 336 would make a cool 410 shotgun for small game hunting and for protecting a farm garden from pests with shotshells, with the option of 000 buckshot and slugs for larger vermin or for home defense if necessary (but not first choice for the last two options). They are not big game guns.

Then you get to hybrid rifled barrels chambered for .45 Colt and .410. Shot pattern is not as good as a dedicated shotgun and requires installing a straight rifled choke tube to use shot, then removing the choke tube to use .45 Colt as solid bullet/slug rounds. (I did buy my wife a .410/.45 H&R hybrid carbine for protection. Gun is easy to train with and use with some versitility.)

Yeah, people have shot .45 Colt as a slug round in .410 shotguns. It is a risk in a gun designed for shotshells and I don't recommend the risk. Some claim some .410s are over built and will take it; others are built light for easy carry and will not take it.

But the opening post is about choosing between two guns: the 9410 in .410 and the 94 in 45 Colt.




(ASIDE: .45 Long Colt is often used to distinguish the .45 Colt cartridge from the short .45 Schofield cartridge issued by the US Army for both the Colt and Schofield issue revolvers. I don't think the "Long" distinction is needed any more since most folks I know request either .45 Colt or .45 Schofield ammo and nobody inquires about .45 "Short" Schofield.)

 

[Pete D.]

Nice to see and to read that little aside at the end of that last post.
45 Colt....yes, that is the name.
How often we see questions about the .45 in a .410.
The answer, always, is in the numbers and the order of appearance. .410 fits in a .45 (if the gun is chambered for shotshells.) .45 is a no go in a .410.
As to the .410 slug being totally inadequate.... There are folk who hunt whitetails with .357 magnum pistols....the .410 slug makes a slightly
bigger hole and packs comparable energy.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Summary: for deer .410 slug will do in pinch for some people and circumstances, but .45 Colt bullet is better for more people and circumstances. (also check local game laws on cartridges allowed for deer)

 

[mavracer]

Like any other ammunition out there, .410 is available in a variety of loads. Such as the Federal or Winchester 1/2 ounce loads.

1/2 ounce being almost 220 grains.

Winchester is 1/5 oz just like Remington and Federal is 1/4oz or 109gr so nothing like a 45 more like a 115gr 9mm in power at the muzzle,but with a really bad sectional density and ballistic coeficient that greatly reduces penatration and velocity even at very short range.

"Totally inadequate" would NOT be a term I would use for the .410 out of a Judge.

gotta dissagree I wouldn't call a 8" group at 13 yards adequate.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Winchester is 1/5 oz just like Remington and Federal is 1/4oz or 109gr so nothing like a 45 more like a 115gr 9mm in power at the muzzle,but with a really bad sectional density and ballistic coeficient that greatly reduces penatration and velocity even at very short range.


gotta dissagree I wouldn't call a 8" group at 13 yards adequate.

My apologies...I could have sworn the description of the ammunition I googled last night was 1/2 ounce slug. I'll do some searching again later tonight and see if I can find it again. Either I misread it or it was mislabeled. Either way, if I can't find it, I'll stand corrected.

As for an 8 inch group at 13 years...why would that not be considered adequate for self-defense purposes? That would certainly fit within center of mass and is certainly good for self-defense ranges.

???

 

[Pete D.]

An 8 inch group at 13 yards? Something wrong there and it ain't the ammo.

When I was testing my little SA M6, the .410 barrel was dead on target at 50 ft. (17 yds. Indoors.). That was on a B2 target. No doubt that it would stay tight for another bit.... Maybe 30-40.
Pete

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

@mavracer:

Follow up here:

I found the website that referenced the 1/2 ounce...and the descriptions on some were somewhat less than accurate (or clear). Each instance where they solely listed the "1/2 oz" in the description turned out to be referencing shot shells and not slugs. My mistake for not following through on that!

Thanks for the clarification!

(Though wouldn't it be neat if they DID offer a 1/2 ounce slug?)


Seems like the largest slug is about 109 grains...still nothing to sneeze at, even if it's delivered at less than typical 115 grain 9mm velocities.

Regardless, a .410 slug will more than adequately penetrate the human body deeply enough to reach vital organs, especially at typical self-defense ranges.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"When I was testing my little SA M6..."

I have a Springfield Armory M6 Scout .22/.410 and I expect it to be more accurate with slugs than a Judge .45-.410 revolver. If I had one I would use a Judge like my friend uses his: shot for small game and pests, .45 Colt for larger threats (he farms in the counties of Hancock TN/Lee VA and those hills are wild)

 

[kudu]

Look at the dates here guys, 8 years ago, they didn't even have the Judge out then. OLD thread.

 

[ElPasoWrangler]

Things have changed over the years. 410s have a lot more respect now than then except for the ones who owned and hunted or protected life and limb with them back then. I think a 410 would be a dandy home defense gun for many people. Maybe me, too.

 

[Mike1234567]

Things have changed over the years. 410s have a lot more respect now than then except for the ones who owned and hunted or protected life and limb with them back then. I think a 410 would be a dandy home defense gun for many people. Maybe me, too.

Agreed... 4-5 .40 cal balls per round at 1100-1200 fps ain't nuthin' to sneeze at.

 

[Pete D.]

Dia.

I know...I am being picky....

Agreed... 4-5 .40 cal balls per round at 1100-1200 fps ain't nuthin' to sneeze at.

There are no .40 cal. Buckshot....at least that I know about.
0000 buckshot is the largest at .38". Close to .40.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

We appear to have drifted away from: Difference between .410 slug and .45 Long Colt?

.410 rifled slug, nominally 1/5 ounce (1/5 oz = 87.5gr but testers report 92gr from Winchester, 96gr from Remington), 1800 fps average, about 700 ft-lbs muzzle energy. Very destructive on wet phonebooks, low penetration, as range increases velocity drops off rapidly.

.45 Colt, 230gr to 255gr lead bullet, typically about 900 feet per second velocity, about 500 ft-lbs muzzle energy. Very deep penetration, as range increases keeps velocity better than .410


ADDED off-topic. The common .410 hunting rounds include 2.5" with 3 #000 buck and 3" with 5 #000 buck; #000 buck is .36 caliber, each 1/6 of an ounce. The standard .410 rifled slug is nominally 1/5 of an ounce. The Brenneke .410 slug is a bit over 1/4 of an ounce. Most are sized for the typical .410 full choke barrel, although the slugs seem to give best accuarcy from cyclinder bore barrels.

But not all .410 defensive rounds use traditional #000 buckshot. Specialized rounds to appeal to owners of Taurus revolvers and other guns dual chambered for .45 Colt and .410 appear to be loaded with specialized projectiles optimized for the bore size.

 

[Mike1234567]

I know...I am being picky....
There are no .40 cal. Buckshot....at least that I know about.
0000 buckshot is the largest at .38". Close to .40.

It is made and it can be quite devastating to a bad guy... 4-5 .40 cal. balls per shot. BUT... as Carl stated, we diverge from the topic. My bad.

 

[LAGS]

I want to try loading some .38 cast lead bullets like 125 to 158 gr. in a .410 with the standard wad as a Sabot, for a Slug Load
I wonder how they will perform out of the Savage 24 for survival and up against the .45 LC out of the Judge.
The range may be decreases over the .410 slug, but you have increased the knock down power over the slug.
But I feel you are loosing a lot by shooting the .45 LC out of the Judge with the shorter barrels.
Let me see what I can come up with for the .410 loads.

 

[Jason_W]

I want to try loading some .38 cast lead bullets like 125 to 158 gr. in a .410 with the standard wad as a Sabot, for a Slug Load
I wonder how they will perform out of the Savage 24 for survival and up against the .45 LC out of the Judge.
The range may be decreases over the .410 slug, but you have increased the knock down power over the slug.
But I feel you are loosing a lot by shooting the .45 LC out of the Judge with the shorter barrels.
Let me see what I can come up with for the .410 loads.

Unless the bullets have a hollow base/nose heavy design, they will likely tumble out of a smooth bore. They might do ok out of the judge if the wad can expand enough to engage the rifling.

 

[Jason_W]

Handloaders have some interesting options available to them when it comes to slugs and buckshot.

My BPI slug manual lists a 3" load that sends 2 000 buckshot pellets out of the muzzle at 2150 f/s. Their light game slug, which is a 0000 buck pellet on a plastic carrier can be pushed to 2400 f/s.

BPI also just put out a new line of slug, the "Thug slug" for almost all gauges, including a 1/4 ounce in .410.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/LC-Series-Thug-Slug-410-8-gram-25_pak/productinfo/1264100/

I have some on order for 12 ga., but I don't have a .410 that would be worth trying slugs in.

I've always wondered why no one has produced a 1/2 ounce or 11/16 ounce slug for the smooth bore .410. It could be too challenging from an engineering standpoint, or maybe it's just lack of demand.

 

[Pete D.]

It is made and it can be quite devastating to a bad guy... 4-5 .40 cal. balls per shot.

My apologies.
Where can I get this? I would like to try it in one of my .410s.
I have tried the .38 slug with wad in a .410 hull. Not accurate beyond a few feet.....the slugs tumble.

 

[Pete D.]

.38s

I have tried the .38s with wad in a .410 hull.
Yes, the slug tumbles
The .38 slug is also quite short compared to a shot load and requires a filler in order to crimp.
Looks like this:


And, alas.....this is what happens at only 15 feet:


Also...my apologies for doubting the .40 cal buckshot. I would like to try it...who makes it?
Pete

 

[Jason_W]

If someone made a hollow-base .375 dia. projectile in the 180-250 grain weight range, I'm guessing a .410 slug could be made that would be adequate for deer at 50 yards or closer.

Casting a slug with a deep enough cavity at the base might be miserable, so swaging could be the way to go.

If someone can spot me a few grand for a swage press setup, I'll be happy to see what I can come up with