differences between 30-06 and 30-03

[WestKentucky]

A lot of folks don't know or care that the 1903 rifle was originally designed for a round that died off very very quickly and gave birth to the 30-06.

Did any of those original rifles survive the conversion to the 30-06?
What are the real differences in the cartridges? I know that the 03 had a much heavier lead bullet rather than a jacketed go-fast bullet that we know and love today. Anybody got the gospel on the 30-03?

 

[horsemen61]

Ttrl

 

[rcmodel]

The 30-03 was never loaded with lead bullets, except perhaps in light Gallery Practice loads used inside National Guard Armory's, etc.

The original load was a 220 grain Cupro-Nickel jacketed Round-Nose bullet at 2,300 FPS.

Shortly after it & the 1903 Springfield were adopted, Spitzer bullet development in Europe by the Swiss and Germans, especially in long range machine-gun use, showed the 220 RN was no longer a viable military round.

The case neck was shortened by .070", and the bullet changed to a 150 grain Spitzer at 2,700 FPS.

In 1926, the bullet weight was changed to a 172 Grain FMJ-BT at 2,640 FPS nearly doubled the range from 3,500 yards to 6,000 yards in machine guns.
Again following the lead in long range Spitzer Boat Tail bullets developed in Europe.

Due to the shorter case neck, 30-06 can be fired in 30-03 rifles.

However the reverse is not usually possible, or at least advisable.

Yes, there are remaining examples of 1903 Springfield 30-03 rifles in circulation.

rc

 

[WestKentucky]

I feel s sudden need to add one. Not a high dollar collectors item...maybe a remington civilian market 03 or some such rifle with a recut chamber. That sounds expensive though, so maybe I skip that and load 06 cases with the closest bullet I can find whenever I get my next 06 which will be a warhorse.

 

[Jim Watson]

The .30-03 had a longer neck to hold its 220 grain round nose inherited from the Krag.
When we went spitzer with the rest of the world, the neck was shortened for the 150 grain pointed flat base. Existing rifles had the barrels set back and rechambered.

There were three variants, not just two.
The '03 had a ramrod bayonet that President Teddy Roosevelt disapproved of.
They had just got going on rifles with the 1905 knife bayonet when the 1906 ammo came along.
It was not a simple progression, there was a lot of scheduling of new production and updating.

Unaltered ramrod bayonet '03s are extremely scarce.
I think actual 1905 variants may be worse.

Maybe a real expert will come along with details.

Note that all case dimensions are the same except neck length.
I bet a lot of 95 Winchester .30-03s were shot with more available.30-06 ammo as the years went by. Accuracy would not have been great, that is why the Army redesigned the neck and throat, didn't just stick a lighter spitzer in the old case and chamber.


If you want something to shoot, it is no trouble to load .30-06 with 220 grain round nose bullets.

 

[rcmodel]

If you want something to shoot, it is no trouble to load .30-06 with 220 grain round nose bullets.

This!

A 30-03 is just a 30-06 with common 220 grain RN bullets loaded in them.

The standard 1-10" rifling twist was never changed from the 30-40 Krag, through the 1903 Springfield, through the M-1 Garand.

In short, any 30-06 is a 30-03 ballistically when 220 grain RN bullets are fired in them.

rc

 

[lysanderxiii]

The .30-03 had a longer neck to hold its 220 grain round nose inherited from the Krag.
When we went spitzer with the rest of the world, the neck was shortened for the 150 grain pointed flat base. Existing rifles had the barrels set back and rechambered.

There were three variants, not just two.
The '03 had a ramrod bayonet that President Teddy Roosevelt disapproved of.
They had just got going on rifles with the 1905 knife bayonet when the 1906 ammo came along.
It was not a simple progression, there was a lot of scheduling of new production and updating.

Unaltered ramrod bayonet '03s are extremely scarce.
I think actual 1905 variants may be worse.

Maybe a real expert will come along with details.

Note that all case dimensions are the same except neck length.
I bet a lot of 95 Winchester .30-03s were shot with more available.30-06 ammo as the years went by. Accuracy would not have been great, that is why the Army redesigned the neck and throat, didn't just stick a lighter spitzer in the old case and chamber.


If you want something to shoot, it is no trouble to load .30-06 with 220 grain round nose bullets.

Production of rifles with the rod bayonet was halted in January 1905, the new bayonet design was approved in April 1905. The new cartridge was adopted in October 1905. There was also a new rear sight design that was in the works that was delayed in order to make it compatible for the new ammunition.

(Information from Hatcher)

Since the new bayonet required the whole front end be altered, I do not think that any rifles were assembled for the new bayonet but not the new cartridge/new sight.

 

[tark]

There is a 1905 modified O3 that is still chambered in 30-03 in the R.I.A. Museum. It is right next to R.I.A. serial # 1. As Canfield mentions in his book, an 03 in this configuration is the rarest of all.

 

[Jim Watson]

Since the new bayonet required the whole front end be altered, I do not think that any rifles were assembled for the new bayonet but not the new cartridge/new sight.

All I have to go on is Flayderman and he says there was a considerable number of 1905s built, both from scratch and as conversions of 1903s.
There are a lot of combinations, all mentioned by Flayderman. In simplified nomenclature:
1903 rod bayonet .30-03
1905 knife bayonet .30-03
1906 spitzer shooter .30-06

1903 updated to 1905 .30-03
1903 updated to 1905, reworked to 1906 .30-06
1903 updated direct to 1906 .30-06

1905 updated to 1906. .30-06

He even gives a good value to a rifle reconverted back to rod bayonet, IF you are sure it was a rod bayonet version to start with. Even the one on m1903.com is a restoration.