Differences I noticed Between Gen4 G19 and Gen2 G19

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I don't know what to tell you. I have the "0 4" assembly in my gen4 19 and I'm north of 2500 rounds without a single failure as of yet. I've ran tula, my defensive ammo, +p stuff, wwb and pretty much every brand of target ammo out there through it with no issues. I've never locked the slide back and held there and to be honest, I don't clean it religiously...maybe every 500 or so rounds. I didn't do anything special when I bought it or even lubricate it before my first cleaning. I just broke the seal, checked for barrel blockage and loaded up a few mags.

Maybe the problem runs deeper and I haven't put enough rounds through it. I hear these things are nightmares and unreliable. I'll keep shooting it until it breaks. :)
 
After every post I make, I read it and find some terrible typo or grammatical error.
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Don't you hate reading a post badly written and thinking to yourself "what idiot typed this?" only to realize it was you. We all have those days.

We transitioned to the G a few years back. So far the major complaint is the stippled grips wearing out uniform shirts in a short order. But reliability has been good. No gun is allowed into service before at least a hundred rounds is fired through it in a flawless manner. New recruits put almost two thousand through before it hits the street.

I've experienced a slide falling off the frame when the slide lock spring broke. That was a bit unusual but thankfully it happened while competing and not the street. While it does happen, a replacement lock and changing the spring is easy and takes a minute or two.


As far as parts, try Topgun. This guy's service is unbelievable. Delivery is beyond rapid.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/parts-glock_parts-extractors/
 
Rscalzo,

The ONLY qualm I have about ordering or buying a part is having it be another defective extractor, or whatever the problem is. If I did buy something I would strongly prefer it be a Glock made part, which is the problem from what I’m seeing. According to what I've read around and been told on here, the recoil spring assembly is terrible, which Glock confirmed when I called them. It seems worse than I thought though if they are on the second generation of the "fixed" spring, which is the third generation of recoil spring assemblies to be put in the Gen 4 G19’s. They are also apparently having a problem making MIM extractors that are up to specifications. I REALLY don’t want to use aftermarket parts in a carry gun, but is there anyone currently producing a machined “new style” tactile loaded chamber extractor?
 
Sounds like you got one of the bad early Gen 4's. I have a Gen 4 G26 along with 3 other Glocks, a Sig and HK.

My personal take on gun issues is to get rid of the run. If a gun does not perform perfect out of the box, out it goes. Just got rid of a Kahr that kept jamming.
 
I have a Gen 4 G26
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Same here, with a similar round count to my gen4 19. It hasn't had any issues either.

My personal take on gun issues is to get rid of the gun.
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Same here, I'd sell it (with full disclosure, of course). If my gen4 had given me a negative experience, I would have kept my gen3 and sold the gen4. As it stands...I have what appears to be one of the few running gen4 19's. :)
 
Alright I posted some new pictures of the extractor. I have nothing to compare it to, but it doesn’t look “right” to me. It has the same depression seen in the link Reaper posted in post #7. The depression is also in the newer Gen 3 guns. I believe the extractor became a MIM part right around the time the Gen 4 came out. When I was taking the slide apart there was a piece of plastic (pic 12 and 13) that was wedged in the firing pin channel. Not off to a good start, but on the bright side, it wasn’t metal. The firing pin safety also had some pretty large copper bits on it (pic 14). Then I threw in a couple pictures of the extractor in the slide (pics 15 and 16) and 5 pictures of it outside of the slide (pics 17-21). There is a depression in the ejector, I don’t know if that is supposed to be there or if the injection molding didn’t go all the way to the top of the mold or what. In any case there is uneven wearing on the ejector. There are a few points being worn shiny already and half of the peg is worn off. The half of the peg pointing towards the ejector face has it finish gone and some deep grooves worn in it. Not super deep but definitely more wear than anywhere else on the gun. The link to images is in post #3.

I ordered a Lone Wolf Distributors ejector and will try that to see if it changes anything. I’m extremely hesitant about having any non-OEM parts in a defensive gun though. Regardless, it should help identify the problem. The more drawn out this becomes the more I find myself wishing I’d bought something else. I really like Glock and the 19 would perfectly fit my needs, but not if it doesn’t function 100% of the time. I need to have complete faith in this gun and at this point I don’t know if that would be possible, even with it fixed.
 
Where are the pics?

If you have a photobucket, put your cursor over the image then left click "IMG Code" then come back here and right click, than left click "paste" to put the pics in the thread.
 
I thought and am still thinking of getting rid of it, but I'm not sure what I would replace it with. First I want to know what the actual problem is, for the sake of knowing and for the sake of letting others know. If it does turn out that the ejector is the cause of these issues, it might do me no good to get a Gen 3 as they come with the same extractors now. There are things I like and prefer in the gun over the previous generations, but I don't like them enough to use an unreliable gun as a concealed carry. The previous generations point high for me and I don't like the mag release or grip texture, but I guess those could be overcome with training.

What I don't like is the fact that the part that could be causing this is the same part now in the previous generations, so there's nowhere to run to if the extractor turns out to be the problem. Gen 3 with a bad extractor or Gen 4 with a bad extractor, what's the difference? I did some looking and there are several newer posts on several forums about the newer Gen 3 19's doing the same thing. Throwing cases all over the place and hitting shooters in the face.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1344070

This explains whats going on with bad extraction

http://www.youtube.com/user/VuurwapenBlog?feature=chclk#p/u/4/wkHEdNx0Mk4

The extraction is extremely haphazard and my cases are getting ruined. Brass trickling out the side of the gun, flying forward, hitting me in the face, going over my left shoulder, it's ridiculous and needs to stop. Most of them clear the chamber...some do not.
 
 
They come up when I click them.

That is the new extractor with the strange "curve" to it. There have been many reports of problems with these on most gun forums. These are even now in the GEN3's. There was a thread on Arfcom where his extractor was unbelievably beat up after very few rounds as well.

It sure looks MIM as you can see what appears to be a sprue mark on the top. Also, on my 2008 era extractor it has very clear machine marks on the front of the claw.

Ejector4.jpg
 
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Called Glock again this morning at 1050PST (150EST for them) and surprise surprise, finally got through to someone. Fifth time is the charm. It only took being on hold four times for about 2 hours, but the fifth time paid off in 9 minutes.

This time they made no attempt to blame me or the ammo, which was also a pleasant surprise. They said they're having some issues and are backlogged with the replacement recoil spring and have no idea when the new shipment from Austria will come in. They sound like they've got a hell of a mess on their hands, the guy was in quite a hurry to get my information so I could just return the pistol. He didn't want to spend any time with me discussing possible causes, he just wanted the details he needed to get me to send it back for repairs. I should be expecting en E-mail from them with directions on how to do that. I asked about a prepaid shipping label and he said they do that, but it still not clear whether they will do that for me or not.
 
Had a missed call from Glock @ 1148 PST, called them back at 1205 PST. This time I talked to a guy that knew his stuff, but didn't catch his name. He talked me through some troubleshooting on the extractor and from my rudimentary diagnosis the extractor seems out of specifications. It doesn't come flush with the side of the bolt face. The top part of the extractor doesn't quite come out to the edge, the bottom seems fine. It also seemed very "sticky" when manipulating it. It doesn't move smoothly and binds up, but does not get stuck or bind up enough to stop it's movement. It is also wearing considerably in a few places. He said they'd send me a new extractor and put me on the list for the new recoil spring assembly.

He also said they are on recoil spring assembly 0411 (or 04-1-1 or whatever numbering system they use, there is now another revised version of the 04-1 spring with another 1 somewhere) now not just 04-1. That would mark the 4th evolution of the recoil spring assembly in the Gen 4 Glock 19. I suggested it might be the extractor, not just the recoil spring assembly, and he shied away from mentioning MIM, so I did and he confirmed they are MIM now. I'm smart enough not to voice my stupid opinion on MIM to the one guy that genuinely seems helpful so we just agreed that when done right MIM is ok. He told me of some problems they'd also had with the machined extractors in the past, particularly on the 20/21 pistols at some point. I would still prefer it be machined and not MIM, but I am more concerned that it work correctly and not be an aftermarket part. So I'll try a new extractor and hopefully it will work, if not I still have one on order from Lone Wolf. I'm a finicky enough person that I HAVE to know why this doesn't work. If I can get it working I might keep it or I might not. I won't know until it's fixed and had at least a thousand trouble free rounds of various types through it. I'll make a decision then, until then I guess the Kahr P45 stays the carry gun.
 
the two bad extractors that replaced did indeed have that dip in the top of it. i replaced one that was machined, and another with a factory cast(or MIM) one that did not have the dip. both solved all issues.

it should be known that the dip is not indicative of a bad extractor, they all have it now. however, MANY of the dip ones are indeed out spec, and glock has been putting them out for some time. i bought my g19 with the bad "dip" extractor almost 2 years ago, and then got another bad one with me recent gen4 g23 purchase. the extractor on the gen4 g23 was WAY more out of spec. first gun i had that sent empties to the left! LOL



sgt duffman (duffman is one of my fav simpons characters btw :) ),

i would get it from brownells, they have an unlimited return policy. just in case you get another bad one, although i doubt it would happen :)
 
Well, I'm getting Glock to send me a replacement and I also ordered one from Lone Wolf. I'm not sure, but I believe the Lone Wolf is machined. I got it with the intent of using it as a non Glock model to compare to. Hopefully it will cause Glock to look at the extractor as a possible cause for these issues. The fact that they are on the 4th iteration of recoil spring assemblies without solving the problem suggests, to me anyways, that perhaps the recoil spring isn't the problem. It's just the easiest thing for Joe Sixpack to look at and say, "hey this is different it must be the problem." The fact that the newer production (since the MIM "upgrade") gen 3 guns are having similar issues should be an indication that the spring is not the culprit or not the only culprit. Granted I see a lot less reports about them having the problem so it probably isn't as frequent as the Gen 4 guns, but it is a problem none the less. The older gen's do not have the double captured recoil springs....so.... maybe it's time to eliminate the recoil spring as the culprit, or at the very least consider it an accomplice and look into the extractors as well.

I've heard that the extractor should just fall out when there's nothing left holding it in and mine certainly doesn't do that. After removing the entire extractor spring assembly and the firing pin safety parts, I have to pry the extractor out with a punch. From talking to Glock too, prying the extractor out with a small punch while everything is assembled, the edge of the extractor that goes over the case lip should come out far enough to be flush with the ridge running down the right side of the bolt face, and mine is not. The lower half of the extractor moves far enough towards the outside to clear the bolt face, but the top 1/4 or so of the extractor cannot be made to come flush with the side of the bolt face, which may explain all the excess wear on the peg of the extractor. Not the most scientific method I know, but I'm not a scientist.

I also talked to them about the slide releasing when a mag is inserted. They said that can happen when the muzzle is pointing up, but I couldn't quite understand the reasoning behind it as it was explained to me. Regardless, I then tried it with the muzzle pointing straight down, halfway down, forward, halfway up and straight up after I was told that and it does it those ways too. In the video I posted the muzzle was flat and I was holding the gun sideways and it did it then, so I don't know. Maybe the slide release has a weak spring or something.

I'm still not sure why it's tearing up the brass though. If it was tearing up the rear or cases I'd point my finger at the extractor but it's tearing up the front of the cases, that would make me think the chamber, but the scratches aren't running the case length so that makes no sense either. The only thing I can think it after being pulled from the chamber by the extractor and hitting the ejector maybe the extractor is holding on to the cases longer than it should and they're being run across the ejection port of the slide after the ejector has spun them sideways. If that's the case then we're back to the extractor, or an over length ejector, which I doubt.
 
The slide releasing when the mag is inserted with some authority is very common, some owners of other polymer guns report the same happenings. Nothing to worry about it, some guys take advantage of that during tactical reloads.

Are you putting some force into the reload, or are you just casually loading the mag until it clicks into place?

I'd worry if the slide releases on its own when you do nothing to it.

My Gen3 19 does it on occasion, and I can almost do it on cue every time I try.
 
If you're set on the GLOCK 19 but won't trust this one despite any successful fixes then sell this one and find an earlier model.
 
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It's safe to say I'm 100% certain they're seated when I load a mag. I don't sneak it in there. I've never had it happen on any of my other guns, to include the other Glock. Some might see it as a feature, but like I said in one of the other posts, I don't like not having control over the slide myself. I'm used to "sling shotting" the slide after seating the mag. Not the fastest way, but the surest, most reliable, and most transferable way I can think of. I don't have to fumble around with slide releases or change my grip, it works on any pistol without changing tactics, and I know that the magazine is fully seated before I do it, so I'm positive a round should have been chambered. The slide releasing on it's own scares me because it's something I'm not doing or in control of. I'm also not certain that the magazine was completely seated before the round was stripped off. I guess I'm just finicky, but I don't like the idea of any gun doing something the operator hasn't explicitly caused it to do.
 
VKG,

It might not do any good to sell it. The newer production Gen 3 guns are having the same issues, (~2-3 years) albeit less frequently. They switched the extractor manufacturing processing and I think they're still working the kinks out. Dunno if it was just a bad batch or if they haven't quite perfected the process yet, but they seem to be having widespread extraction issues. When I say widespread I don't mean 1 out of every 10 guns or something, but certainly more than they've seen in past generations. New Glocks are not old Glocks, and a Glock is a Glock does not seem to apply. That being said, I'm sure MOST people probably have no problem, but there are enough people having problems that Glock has gone through the trouble and expense to redesign the recoil spring assembly 4 times and ship them for free to people with trouble. They are also currently out of stock of the most recent redesign and have no idea when they will have more stock.
 
Reaper,

I suppose it's not neccessary but old habits die hard. I think it's from using the Kahr which seems to take some abuse to get to seat with a full mag and 1911's with no base pads on the mags. They like it rough and I oblige. I should add that that comes more from stripping one off the mag to chamber one then refilling the mag and reinserting it. Loading those mags has just carried over into loading all mags.
 
It might not do any good to sell it. The newer production Gen 3 guns are having the same issues, (~2-3 years) albeit less frequently. They switched the extractor manufacturing processing and I think they're still working the kinks out. Dunno if it was just a bad batch or if they haven't quite perfected the process yet, but they seem to be having widespread extraction issues. When I say widespread I don't mean 1 out of every 10 guns or something, but certainly more than they've seen in past generations.
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I didn't know that.

Unless there is a need for a light, seek out a gen2. These are what GLOCK built its reputation on (the G17s and G19s of the late '80s and early '90s, that is).

New Glocks are not old Glocks, and a Glock is a Glock does not seem to apply.
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Just as new Marlins are not old Marlins, new Bushmasters are not old Bushmasters, new Remingtons are not old Remingtons and, quite plainly, new SIGs are not old SIGs. The situation is unfortunate.
 
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