Difficult extraction in .357 Blackhawk - the load, or the gun?

[Haxby]

I would shoot some factory loads through it. If they don't stick, the problem is with your handloads. If those stick, the guys at Ruger might be more likely to listen to a problem involving factory ammo.

 

[BCRider]

It may also be notable that on all cylinders, the "sticky" part is when the case has come out about 1/4". Before and after that, they practically fall out.

So the initial movement is easy, then it jams and then it's easy again? This description is interesting as it suggests that your chambers are more open at some point in the middle than they are at the rear and up near the transition so the fire formed fatter mid section of the brass is sticking as it tries to come out past the smaller rear mouth.

Take some of your empties that stuck hard and mic the case diameter at the rear just up from the rim and at a few spots along the case. Then remove the cylinder and see how far the fire formed "fat" case drops into a chamber. Mark the depth and mic the diameter of the case at that point.

I'm suspecting from your description that your chambers are not fully cylindrical but have a wider spot just ahead of the rear opening. Now is that wider spot due to a poor reamer, excessive honing in the middle area (if any was done for whatever reason) or is it from some stretching due to the stout nature of the loads you like shooting? Since it's a Blackhawk that has a rep for being a really solid gun and this is the "smaller" .357 round cylinder which will have really thick walls I tend to think that it is a case of fat in the middle chambers from some sort of finish honeing gone bad. So the only question is are the smaller sections of the chambers at spec already or is there meat that could be cut away with a fresh chamber reamer to make this cylinder right.

All in all I'd say it's time for the gun to visit its birth place for some work. And probably include a nice description along with some of the empty sticky brass for them to ponder.

 

[ralph2]

I just had the same problem with my Blackhawk. I had been shooting lead 38spl and had left a ridge of lead in the cylinder. The extracted 357 brass had a ring around it where it contacted the ridge. I will not shoot 38spl in a 357 again. It took me several hours to get the lead out.

 

[Ruark]

"I just had the same problem with my Blackhawk. I had been shooting lead 38spl and had left a ridge of lead in the cylinder. The extracted 357 brass had a ring around it where it contacted the ridge. I will not shoot 38spl in a 357 again. It took me several hours to get the lead out."


I thought about that, too. But even factory .38 spl has the sticking problem, although not quite as severe. And there is definitely one particular chamber which is much worse than the others. On 4 chambers the cases almost fall out, in 1 of them the case needs an extra shove. Then in the other one, the case sticks so tight you have to put both thumbs on the extractor.

I'm going to carefully polish the chamber portion (not the throat) out with a little rouge and see if that fixes it.

 

[DC3-CVN-72]

I think BCRider nailed it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've been using 16.6 gr. of H110, SPM primers, 158 gr. XTPs.

Hodgedon, who makes H110, recommends a max of 14.5 grains of H110 behind a 158 grain bullet, and lists that load at 35,400 CUP. I expect your load is generating a lot more pressure than that.

 

[CraigC]

I don't know where all this conflicting data is coming from. The Hodgdon site lists 16.7gr as maximum with H110.

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.580" 15.0 1418 28,600 CUP 16.7 1591 40,700 CUP

 

[Ruger GP100 fan]

My Spears manual (# 14) calls for a min of 13.9gr and max of 15.5gr of H110 seated to 1.570 for 3 different 158gr bullets and one bullet which is seated to 1.575. AND,it calls for a minimum load of 13.2gr of Win 296 and a max of 14.7gr with the same list of bullets. Same powder...different data. Winchester recommends a MINIMUM powder load of 15gr,seated to 1.580. I'd be afraid to shoot with a powder load of 13.2gr or 13.9gr. Am I not understanding something here?

 

[Old Fuff]

Am I not understanding something here?

No, you're "spot on." The data is collected using different test barrels or revolvers, which can give varied results. Maximum loads should always be worked up for a particular gun, with the book loads being used for general information only.

As an example, I once had a Thompson-Center, 10" barrel that was chambered in .38 Colt Super. I soon found that loads that were more then safe out of a 5" Government Model ran excessive pressure levels in the longer TC barrel when using certain slower burning powers.

In the present instance the extraction problem could be caused by a number of things (or a combination thereof); but before jumping to any conclusion some different ammunition and load-levels should be tried.

If bad chamber(s) are behind it, Ruger should replace the cylinder. Then, and only then, consider polishing. Generally speaking, a correct chamber that still has reamer marks will not affect extraction.

In some semi-automatic firearms the chamber is actually threaded to delay extraction, but never the less does not prevent it. Ruger's revolver chambers don't come remotely close to this.