Difficult to close bolt-- what gives?

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TonyM

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I was at the range this morning, shooting my .300 win mag. I'm shooting 150 grain accubonds over near max load of H1000. I loaded 100 rounds, all are 1x fired brass, however, about 50 rounds are Winchester brass, and 50 are Remington Nickel brass. All brass was f/l resized. When I attempted to close the bolt on some of the Nickel brass, it had more resistance. It did close, fired, accuracy was fine. The bolt opened easily, no signs of pressure on the primers that I can tell. What could be causing the extra resistance when closing the bolt?:confused:
 
Did you check the length of the cases after resizing? The cases may be too long and bumping up against the end of the chamber. Although, it also increases chamber pressure.

Did your resizing die lose it's setting. Sometimes the die backs off a little during use if not tightened sufficiently in the press.
 
I just checked the case length with micrometers....it is below (.010) the max case length......Very confusing...
 
I don't think you have a problem as long as you did not have to force the bolt closed with significant pressure when you were using the nickel cases. You said accuracy and pressure signs okay, so no cause for serious worry.

Next time you resize the nickel cases, try a resized empty case in your rifle and see if it still is hard to chamber. If so, you may need to go down another 1/4 turn on your sizing die.

As mentioned above, be sure to check your case length after resizing; it is always possible that the nickel are a little long and you are slightly forcing the case neck into the throat of your chamber.

You could smoke the case base and the shoulder of a resized case. Chamber and see where the case is contacting your chamber.
 
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MKL,
The bolt is definitely "tight" to close, but not so much that I am unable to do so with one hand.....
 
What pressure signs would be telling?-- I don't have flattened primers, the area around the primer appears normal.....
 
MKL, I used a dry erase marker on live cartridge (vs smoke). Contact is being made on one side of the base, approximately .347 around the case and .142 high (from just above belt). I wonder if I should pull the bullets and resize? It's odd as I believe I resized all the cases at the same time (brass and nickel)...
 
Your issue is one of the most common to be found on reloading forums. And it is likely due to your having a over length case.

Overlength, that is not from base to case neck, but overlength from base to shoulder.

The set up instructions given with sizing dies assume a lot of things. And seldom following the instructions do you ever get the brass sized to the correct length. If possible you would like to set back the case shoulder about .003” from the fully expanded condition it comes out from the rifle. In no circumstance do you ever want to size it more than .006” as you are likely to get a case head separation on the next firing. There have been instances where I followed the instructions and I got a crush fit in the rifle chamber because the sizing die did not set the shoulder back enough. In those instances I have had to grind material off the bottom of a sizing die to get sufficient case sizing. Just take the instructions that the factory sends with their dies, and toss out the part that tells you to size to the shellholder. Or shellholder plus a ¼ turn. You will find that such guidance is inaccurate at best, rubbish on the average.

To properly size cases to a correct length you will need a new piece of equipment that has not been mentioned: case gages. I really like the Wilson type case gage. You size your round and drop it in the gage. This gage measures the distance between shoulder and base. It is a "go" and "no Go" gage. And it is a true measurement, as I have dropped my chamber headspace gages in my wilson gages and found perfect agreement between them. You want to size your case between “go” and “no go”, and for my rifles, I size everything to gage minimum.

ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg
Wilsongagebetweengoandnogage308bras.jpg

If you want to try an experiment, size the case following the factory sizing die instructions. Then measure the sized case length with your case gage. If the case is between the “go” and “no go” of the gage, go buy a lottery ticket. Because it is your lucky day and you are going to be a millionaire. What you will probably see is a case that is over length. On a few occasions you will see an underlength case.

This web site is really useful for showing how to use case gages. I recommend looking at the pictures, and it explains the special case gages needed for the belted cartridges.

I have a belted magnum and had to buy the special Wilson case gage to figure out just how much to set the shoulder back. Headspace in belted magnums is measured off the belt. The distance from base to shoulder is not controlled and is all over the place for different manufacturers and their different reamers. This is also one of the reasons belted magnums have short case lives. People don't control the base to shoulder measurement, they over size these cases, and they get case head separations.

I have a hard time believing, but there are fans of belted magnums. That is in the same league as being a fan of drum brakes.

I do like my manual choke though. :neener:

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm

The midsection of the Wilson gage is cut big. It only measures headspace. What the Wilson type gage and the other functionally equivalent gages do not measure is "fatness". This is an important measurement for gas guns and should be controlled. You do not want any resistance to bolt closure due to overlong cases or over fat cases. It is a safety consideration for gas rifles with free floating firing pins, it is a reliability consideration for the other few actions.

For those who want more sophistication than Wilson case gages, Sinclair makes gages that will measure the fired length of a case, and allow you to set the shoulder back from that dimension. I do have these Sinclair comparometers, found them useful when case gages are not available, but they are more complicated than a “go”, “no- go” gage.
 
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I wonder if I should pull the bullets and resize

I wouldn't. If you have no pressure signs, accuracy fine, etc. there are no safety issues.

Try screwing in your sizing die another 1/8 turn and size a case.

"Smoke" with your dry erase and see if the contact point gets smaller and the bolt closes easier.
 
Contact is being made on one side of the base, approximately .347 around the case and .142 high (from just above belt).
This can be a sign of high pressure. This area may not be sized by the fl die.
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Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die

The nickel brass is harder and may just need a little more sizing in the shoulder area. Try screwing your fl die down another 1/8 turn, as said above. But if high pressure has expanded the belt area, then your normal die will not size that area. This special die is needed. http://www.larrywillis.com/ Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die. You said the case extracted ok after firing, so maybe not the belt area.
 
I should note this brass was given to me-- "supposedly" only fired once (it was in the orginal factory box).... I did note an area of what looked like exposed brass (I guess the nickel is just a coating?) in the same area that was scraped when I used the dry erase.

I guess I don't know how to add a photo to the post....
 
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all are 1x fired brass,
Was it factory ammo? If factory fired, than it has to be the shoulder is not pushed back far enough. More sizing is needed. Just read your above post. Brass fired in a different rifle would do it. The brass will possible form to your chamber after firing and not give you a problem on the next loading.
 
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I should note this brass was given to me-- "supposedly" only fired once

Well, you kinda answered your own question. You're loading brass that was fired in a different rifle, and to make matters worse, you have two different brands that you're trying to make work. I can about guarantee that the case capacity of one brand is a couple grains different from the other. Do an H2O fill and check if you don't believe this.
I NEVER mix brands of brass and try to get good groups. They are ok for plinking, but not for serious benching.
As others have mentioned, you'll need to drop your sizing die a bit to push the shoulder back more, then they will fit.




NCsmitty
 
I just unloaded one round with bullet puller, resized and the bolt closed much easier. Thanks for all your help!
 
I was at the range this morning, shooting my .300 win mag. I'm shooting 150 grain accubonds over near max load of H1000. I loaded 100 rounds, all are 1x fired brass, however, about 50 rounds are Winchester brass, and 50 are Remington Nickel brass. All brass was f/l resized. When I attempted to close the bolt on some of the Nickel brass, it had more resistance. It did close, fired, accuracy was fine. The bolt opened easily, no signs of pressure on the primers that I can tell. What could be causing the extra resistance when closing the bolt?:confused:
I have always considered it good re-loading practice to check re-sized cases (and completed cartridges at the end of the re-loading process) for ease of chambering and bolt closure in the rifle of intended use (with the firing pin removed) -- spot checking, say every tenth case/round, is usually sufficient.

James
 
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NCSmitty, that makes sense regarding different brands of brass. Will the groups just be different with different brands (i.e. different point of impact) or potentially not as good (tight)?
I'll tell ya, the more I learn the more I wonder how I've managed to do ok in the past. I should note that these are hunting rounds, not competition....I'm just really anal. That being said, a 300+ shot is commonplace where I'll be hunting (Wyoming plains for antelope).
 
I should note this brass was given to me-- "supposedly" only fired once (it was in the orginal factory box).... I did note an area of what looked like exposed brass (I guess the nickel is just a coating?) in the same area that was scraped when I used the dry erase.

Don't reload these cases if the nickel is already coming off the cases. You likely already have flakes of the coating inside your size die.
 
Will the groups just be different with different brands

You don't know without trying them. I know that this will make sense to you, that a case with less capacity can conceivably have higher pressures than the other brand with the same charge. Most Remington cases that I have seen are heavier than the same caliber of Winchester, with the Winchester having a larger capacity. Not always, but most often from my point of view.



NCsmitty
 
Makes sense, and since I'm already using a compressed load I imagine it could be more of an issue. The nickel isn't really flaking off, just looks slightly "rubbed" near the base. After resizing, they chamber fine. Another question-- I worked up this load with new Winchester brass, will 1x fired Winchester brass be ok? I.e., will accuracy suffer, pressure issues, etc, etc?
 
will 1x fired Winchester brass be ok?

Yes, they should be fine. Save the Rem cases for a different load/bullet. That way you know that each brand was worked up for a specific use. I recommend a 165gr in a brand of your choice.



NCsmitty
 
Slamfire1 gave the answer in post #9. Very common, as he posted.

I had one of my sons friends with the same problem sighting in for hunting season last year with his uncles reloads. I told him what was wrong, he relayed it to the uncle, the uncle broke it all down, resized the cases properly, problem solved.
 
Thanks guys, really appreciate all the input. I had a ton of 150 grain accubonds and finally found a load that worked and then this happened.... I shouldn't have strayed from my 165 grain Sierra load....was looking for velocity and lighter bullet (for antelope). Went through a TON of brass testing loads, of course the last two loads tested were great. I had limited 1x fired brass and mixed them for a batch. Shouldn't have done it. I try to not mix 1x fired with 2x fired....
 
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