Dilema - Need help convincing a friend from making a potential firearm mistake

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Could he get in trouble for lending a gun to someone who he knows or should know is going to pass it to a felon? Yep.

In fact, he could BECOME a felon for doing that. And if said felon kills or injures someone with that rifle, the friend could lose everything he owns in a civil case.

I don't know how to keep someone from doing stupid things; anyone who does should contact some of our political leaders but, like your friend, they probably won't listen.

Jim
 
Schutzen said:
2) You need start saving your money. When your buddy gets arrested and convicted, several guns will be for sale cheap.

Stupid is as stupid does. You just cannot help some people.
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Funny you mentioned that, that's exactly what happened when his dad lost his rights. I was too late to snag it- but another person I know in the club picked up the dad's 686-0 for $325 when he had to ditch his guns.


This whole thing is going to blow up in his face (no pun intended) and I can't seem to talk him out of it at all. I'm not sure if he's so gullible that he actualy believes the GF will actually be the one to shoot the gun, Or if the GF is actually serious - There is a small chance that she's being real with this, the parent - when he's not high or drunk, can be a persuasive guy; or - if there's some weird displaced guilt going on where he feels bad for his dad not being able to shoot anymore. (although the dad uses BP rifles still - apparently they're considered "primitive weapons") I'm not sure.

Like I said, the guys a good guy at heart, but there some times when he needs a good boot to the head to see reality. I've worked on him with this about as far as I can though, and I'm more than ready to give him that boot at this point. In the end, he'll make his own decision no matter what anyone else tells him. He does have one of those minds that can't let things sit though - he's gota pry into things to find out why they work. So, hopefully I can plant enough doubts in there that they'll sit on his mind for the next 2 months and bake his noodle or awhile.

To the other posters - the replies are largely what went through my mind as well. The legal cases help though. give him a few of those to chew on and he'll case the internet looking at them.

There's some small chance of luck on his side - the parent gets into trouble pretty often. there's an equal chance that he'll get himself incarcerated before hunting season begins and will have to spend another month in a halfway house or in one of those drug cleanup facilities again. and for some reason in the fall when the construction season winds down - that's when the parent seems to get into the most trouble.
 
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TomJ said:
Forget the logical argument. Your friend is giving a firearm to a violent drunk who has injured people in the past. Like it or not, you know about this. If your friend doesn't care about his own legal and civil liabilities, he and you should care about the people who this drunk may injure. Call your friend, explain your concerns and that you're looking out for his welfare, and let him know that if he gives the GF the rifle you're going to notify the police. Then do it if he goes ahead with this. I understand that this goes against the "guy code" of not turning in your friends, but from what you're saying, the odds are good that this drunk may injure or kill someone, and from where I stand avoiding the possible death of an innocent person trumps any loyalty you feel towards your friend. Your friend does not have the right to put others in harms way, and like it or not, you're involved. This is not a game. Think about how you'll feel if someone is harmed and you didn't do enough to stop it, especially if it's some child. Sometimes the only choices we have are bad ones, and we need to pick the best out of those bad choices. I hope you and your friend do the right thing.
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I should probably have better clarified that statement. the parent's never used a firearm on someone when they've been violent. just other things like construction tools. I don't know how often though either, I don't know the entire history - nor would I ever want to. I just know he lost his firearm rights over a domestic that got him arrested.
 
Life is hard enough worrying about our own stupid decisions to also take responsibility and guilt for the stupid decisions of others.
 
If you can tell him the risks in plain and simple language, then you have done what you can. I have friends who have done foolish things that they have been warned against. I married a woman in spite of my mother warning me not to. When the marriage fell apart, not once did my mom say I told you so. Hope you can do the same.
 
In situations like this, I feel I owe it to them to be honest and tell them what and why.... Sometimes, depending on the situation, I'll also add that I wont be aiding the situation should it go as I believe it will.

You owe it to him to be frank, clear, straight forward.
 
Mbogo,

All kidding aside, this may be a viable option. They go hunting, nothing happens, friend has crappy guns, doesn't ask again. If violent drunk knows what's up, then that could end bad...
 
IANAL.

I've thought about ways for your friend to insulate himself . . . for example, if Drunk Dad gets in hot water and claims he got the gun from Dumb Son rather than Girlfriend (protecting HER rather than Dumb Son), a bill of sale to Girlfriend might insulate Dumb Son in the ensuing legal proceedings . . .

But then I think - WHY try to find a flimsy way to weasel around liability when you know - KNOW! - that bad things are almost certain to happen? I mean, why try to insulate yourself in anticipated legal proceedings when you can simply avoid them entirely by NOT loaning out a firearm?

And aside from legal issues, there's the moral issue should Drunk Dad actually hurt someone . . . even if legally insulated, I'd hate to have responsibility for that on my conscience.

I wouldn't do it.

Period.
 
HRnightmare said:
I'm had to be rude but I think the logical argument is "Are you stupid?" With a string of profanities before, during and after that sentence.
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BTDT... Both sides of it...

Sucess rate is about 20/80 at the time of the conversation. However, it seems like a light bulb comes on at the last minute, bringing the sucess rate to 60/40.
 
I have a nephew that shot trap with us until he was involved
In a drug bust. It'll be up to 7 years before he can go before
The court to ask to have his record cleared. I love him and see
Him a family functions but he doesn't come near me when
Firearms are involved. Stay as far away from the described
Situation as possible.
 
People are different, but I'd simply explain the law and the potential punishments along with reasonable alternatives such as bow hunting. Then I'd mind my own business and let grown people make their own decisions.
 
Deep South nailed it, if he really wants to deer hunt, offer to take him bow, or photo hunting. Buy him a quarter beef, have a family barbeque, it will be the best money you've ever spent. NEVER expose yourself to the consequences of an irresponsible person, I have one in my family. :banghead:
 
2 things
1 your friend needs to be a man and say no, that he will not possibly put himself in legal trouble.
2 make sure he knows that if things go wrong and you are drawn in some how, if asked by authorities you will tell them the truth about your conversation.
let us know what happens.
 
Sounds like you need to do your local hunting community a favor and tell your friend if he loans the girlfriend a rifle that you plan on dropping a dime to help protect the public.

If his dad is too drunk or she too inexperienced one of them could shoot a hunter rustling in the bushes as he is taking a pee.

No way is it worth lending her a rifle.
 
Does your state require a hunter safety course to get a hunting license? She would have to invest time to do that. At the very least, he should make her show him a hunter safety card to see if she's even remotely serious.
 
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