Dilemma - Modifying a Classic 1911...

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Chris Rhines

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I've been sitting on a pair of original USGI 1911s, both manufactured during WWI. Both are Colts, one has the original blue finish, one is a Springfield Arsenal rebuild. Both are all matching.

My problem is, neither gun is really in shooting condition. The original Colt has an intact finish, but with some surface rust (mostly under the stocks) and handling marks. The springs are totally shot, and the barrel looks like it had been fired with corrosive ammo and never properly cleaned (rifling is all intact, but the bore is very dark.) The Colt/Springfield Arsenal is in better shape, Parkerizing is in 80%+ condition, good bore, but still would need new springs and such.

I'm not a collector and I don't want to hang on to guns I can't shoot. On the other hand, if these guns have any serious collector value, I don't want to screw them up. So...

- Are either of these guns particularly collectible?
- Would replacing worn parts impact said collector value? How about a dead barrel?
- Are either of these guns fair game for rebuilding, considering their condition?

Thanks,
Chris
 
The legend of the 1911 began with those WWI guns, their ability to keep functioning despite wear, rust, and dirt. The springs are a semi-consumable item anyway. I'd just get the springs changed and shoot some quality (factory, not commercial reloads) ball ammo in them. Save the parts for the collector.

Prices have shot up in recent years - even the rusty one I would guess would bring $500 or more.

Given occasional use and good care, they will still be shooting many years from now.
 
I'd leave them alone. If you don't want them, sell them to a collector and use the money to get a less unique pistol to customize. They are a part of history. We have lost to many of them to customization and destruction of government surplus already.
 
My advise from my perspective. Take the rust off if you can, clean 'em up and sell them to someone who'll take good care of them. Then buy yourself a new 1911. Myself, I wouldn't even replace the parts.

Many people don't share my ideas on this but that thing is a peice of history. The condition it is in might have resulted from the soldier, or his enemy, bleeding on the pistol. Or from long use... or maybe the previous owner took horrible care of it. Still, it is an artifact of one of the biggest, greatest and most terrible wars in recorded history. They'll never make one again. It goes without saying, of course, that you can do with them as you wish.
 
GI Pistols

Chris...Send those pistols to me immediately! You can't have'em in
Maryland any more because of the altered rifling. It won't match the
fired bullet and is therefore in violation of law and all that is holy to
UpChuck Schumer and Toady Kennedy. Why...The very idea of a
gun that can't be ballistically traced would send shock waves clear up to
Martha's Vineyard! They wouldn't be able to sleep nights just thinkin' about a pistol that just might possibly be used in a crime sometime...
somewhere...somehow...maybe...without the ability of the crack organizations under their command to trace it back to the gun that fired it.

I'll pay all shipping and transfer fees...or course.:D

Change the springs...Rebarrel the one that's been neglected...Have
a smith verify that all is mechanically sound, and shoot'em. I would
include one small caveat, though. Don't expect those old girls to eat
25 or 30 thousand rounds. They've probably already seen a quarter-million each, and they're a bit tired.

Please...Don't put ducktails on'em. T'wouldn't be dignified.

Luck!

Tuner
 
They're yours to do with as you please, however...

Please do not refinish or anything else that can't be undone. Please? But go ahead and shoot 'em, re-spring 'em, put a new barrel in the one (just save the old tube), et cetera.

Bear in mind, however, that you could easily turn those two old GI guns into one shiny new Les Baer.
 
Thanks all. A few more details:

I'm not going to restore them to stock and keep them. I have no use for a stock 1911...wait, that's not quite right. I'd love to keep them, but right now I need a practical 1911 or two more than I need two classics. The idea of selling my 1911s to a collector and using the price to fund a Les Baer (or more likely, a pair of NRM Colts) is pretty attractive.

When I get back from Kansas, I'll see about replacing the necessary small parts, with a mind towards selling them. I'll also post some pics.

Second question - what's a good source for USGI 1911 parts?

Thanks,
Chris
 
I would not modify an original 1911, even one that has been arsenal refinished. There is a very finite supply of these guns in the world, there will never be anymore, but there will be fewer and fewer. Even in poor condition, these originals are rising in value. I would recommend selling them to someone who wants them as collectibles and buying a gun that suits your needs.
 
You would be, to put it nicely, a dunce to modify those guns. If only for the financial value involved. The only reason to modify a gun like that would be if it was already buggered up and had no resale value as a result. But everything-matching WWI guns? From a strictly financial point of you, you would be foolish to do anything but keep them 100% stock.

Not to mention cutting them up to make them swoopy and modern would be right up there with blowing your nose on the American flag.
 
Listen!

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pissstollllls to MEEEEEE.

Seeaaaaannnnn...Doooon't calllll himmmmm a duuunnnnce....if you maaaake himmmmm maaaaaaad...he woooooon't sennnnnd meeeeeee
the piiiiistolllllsssssss...


SvengaliTuner, Ace Hypnotist
 
Chris:

Given your perspectives, I think your choice of selling the collectables to fund one of more shooters is the right way to go. But other then cleaning I wouldn't do anything else. New springs and a barrel won't make much difference to a collector, and if the barrel is replaced they'll want an exact "correct" replacement. It would be better to slightly reduce the price on the guns and keep the money you saved by not buying replacements. If the purchaser want's to do some informed restoration work that's fine.
 
>> He's packin' up those pistols right this minnit, I betcha... <<

He sure is. That so he can put on an extended "ambi" manual safety to match his "duckbutt." Then there's the new plastic trigger, and of course the extended flared butt piece. Oh, and I almost forgot about the full-length sight rail.

You can have the guns, I'm after the parts he takes off ...

(Just kidding of course).
 
I like this thread.

I'd sell one to buy a shooter and keep one just in case you have "seller's remorse" later.

Besides, that gives Tuner more "time" to work on you for the other. :)
 
I know a guy with a 1918 USGI M1911 and a 1917 Colt commercial who had the same dilemma. Bottom line is they're still in the back of the safe, just hangin' out, not payin' the rent. Got told not to "fix 'em up" but couldn't bring himself to sell 'em, so there they sit.

Oh btw, the commercial one was engraved "WRACo" on the bottom of the mag well and lettered to a shipment to WRACo in 1917.

What's a mother to do? :rolleyes:
 
Unfortunately you're not likely to find replacement GI parts, as the market has been completely dried up for many years. If you don't believe me, watch on eBay just how many people will trip over each other just to get a crack at buying somebody's pull-off GI mainspring housing.

Unaltered GI pistols are fast acquiring values out of reach of most average working men, including ones that only a few years ago would've been considered dogs.
 
Sell them to a collector and buy something more practical for your stated use and interest.
 
GI Parts

Dana said:

Unfortunately you're not likely to find replacement GI parts, as the market has been completely dried up for many years.

Yeah buddy! Tell me about it.

A big reason that they're sought after is...the purists/collectors/historians are tryin' to restore the old warhorses with correct-era parts that somebody took off and gave away or THREW away when they customized
the pistols back in the day when GI 1911s could be bought for 50 bucks
a copy in a gun show parkin' lot.

Wish I could turn back the hands of time. I coulda been a millionaire
by hittin' the shows and buyin' up GI small parts that the vendors couldn't
GIVE away.:rolleyes:

*sigh*

TUner
 
Yeah, hindsight, ain't it great? Maybe we should start stocking up on Jennings and Lorcin parts? You never know, they might be worth a fortune in 40 years!:D
 
Stock Up!

stans said:

Maybe we should start stocking up on Jennings and Lorcin parts?

Well...I dunno 'bout all THAT, but I wish I had my time to do over on the
Norincos. I woulda bought a safe just to stack'em up in!:D

Been sleepin' late stans?:p

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Photos? It would be kinda neat to see the ones in question.

I have a lot of modern 1911's; one of these days I need to buy a nice early model. I haven't put a scope on my 1896 Krag, and I probably won't modify the early .45, either:)

edit to add, depending on where I am at the moment with a home down payment, I might be a buyer, too, for the nicer one.
 
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