Dillon Square Deal B or XL 650?

[wally]

The Square Deal B will better fit the current space occupied by my old Hornady (edit: its a Pro-7, the one I got used is the Projector) (primer feed has become horribly unreliable again, I'd replaced the entire primer feed assembly once already a couple of years ago) after 20+ years of service I'm ready to move on.

But I like the possibility of adding the automatic case feeder to the XL-650 sometime down the road.

Press will be dedicated to .45ACP so the non-standard dies of the Square Deal B is not a big issue assuming the Dillon dies are carbide and work well. Automatic indexing is a must so the RL 550B is out.

Let the debate begin!

--wally.

 

[qbpc]

+1 for XL650

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Buy whichever one you like the best.

 

[cdrt]

All the guys I know, who have the Square Deal are kicking themselves for not buying the 650.

 

[dcloco]

Thought about Hornady again?

 

[Idano]

I definitely would not go with the Square Deal B because you would have to use only Dillon dies for that press and you can't do rifle which someday you may want to. I feel the RL550B is over priced so that leaves the XL650 as your next option. If money wasn't an option or if I shot more military brass I definitely would go for the RL1050 simply because station #3 swages the primer pocket. You might want to consider the Hornady AP like dcloco suggested their powder measure is better then the Dillon otherwise their machine is pretty comparable to the XL650, even in cost these days.

 

[jmorris]

I've two of each, the 650's are used at home and the SDB's are for load development at my range. If you are one of the guys that wants to spend time reloading a single stage will do, if you want it done in a hurry, one you can up grade with case and bullet feeders is a good choice.

 

[halvey]

Pick one. Load ammo. Practice.

 

[Jim Watson]

The main fault I found with the SDB that is seldom mentioned is that it seats primers at the top of the stroke with very little leverage. You have to push HARD to avoid high primers in .45 ACP. Small primers for 9mm or .38 are less difficult but still not real easy.
The 550 is better but not great, and I presume the 650 about the same due to similar handle, toggle, and ram design.

 

[aka108]

Only problem I've had with Dillon Sq. Deal is with the screw that adjusts the primer feed. It has a lot of play and tends to work out of adjustment during operation and cause primers to flip and be put in upside down. Wrapped screw with teflon plumbers tape. This tightened the fit and things have gotten a bit better. Dillon replaced quite a few of the primer feed parts for no cost thinking that was the problem. Was just a loose fitting screw.

 

[Loco]

My Dillion 650 is awesome. I've had the press for 9 month's with not one problem. Knock on wood.

Loco

 

[Plain Old Bill]

IF you're sure about keeping it for the .45 ACP ONLY, can't beat a Square Deal. I have four in different calibers 'cause I don't like ot waste time setting them up. You can buy them used for 200-250 if you keep your eyes peeled.
POB

 

[creekwalker]

Well Wally everyone has an opinion and most are willing to offer theirs rather freely, so I’ll make a couple of comments with a proviso thrown in. You’ve not indicated any average number of how many 45ACP rounds you load or anticipate loading so my first response is do you actually need a progressive press, or would a good turret press like the Lee Classic Cast Turret or the Redding T 7 turret be a better option for you? Next, if all you ever anticipate loading is the 45ACP on Dillon equipment than why wouldn’t the SDB be your best option? That said though if there is a remote possibility of loading additional calibers and your convinced you want to go with Dillon equipment than wouldn’t the 650 do everything the SDB does and more? Oh and BTW this all comes from a long-term reloader who’s never owned any Dillon equipment.

Best

creekwalker

 

[Encoreman]

Hey Wally, I have a SDB I bought used on E-bay, it came with .38 dies and I bought .40S&W set-up. It performs very well for me, I can load 400 rounds in 45 minutes. This is good competition ammo. I have probably loaded about
5-7K with almost no problems. I did break the aluminum handle and Dillon sent another one free and upgraded my delrin bushings to brass free too! I have friends that have 650's and my ammo is just as good as theirs. If you are going to load rifle ammo and a lot of it, then get the 650. As for me SDB and a rockchucker for the rifle ammo. Good luck Mac

 

[wally]

Primer problem mentioned with the Square Deal is pretty much same as I'm having with my Hornady again. As I said, I replaced the entire primer feed assembly a couple of years ago and now the problems have returned, I think its time to retire it. Another Hornady is not out of the question.

XXX rounds per hour is a nice ad copy but, but reality is different. For 20+ years I've had no trouble loading 250 rounds/hour -- time measurement includes everything -- filling powder measure, loading primer tubes, opening bullet boxes and dumping cleaned brass from storage containers into working storage bin, and placing loaded rounds into storage boxes.

I don't see how the XL650 could be too much faster unless I get the automatic case feeder -- still have to fill primer tubes and & powder hopper, manually feed in empty brass and bullets. If I'm wrong here, why and how is it significantly faster, as handle down handle up time is under two seconds as it is now unless primer feed screws up.

If I could really increase my production rate that'd be great, but if I have to increase the time it takes to sort and clean my brass my net production wouldn't increase.



How does the automatic case feeder handle the occasional 9mm, .45GAP, Win NT, or .40 S&W case that always seems to be in among my brass. Currently I cull these when I put the case into the shell holder, but if dumped into the XL650 hopper what happens? How long does it take to get going again? In a nutshell this is my key concern because if a foreign case gums up the works and takes more that a minute or two to clear and get going again the advantage will be lost to needing too much extra time in the fired brass processing step.

I don't sort for headstamps, I shoot way too much volume to worry about this. On the rare occasion I want to shoot the smallest group possible, I'll sort out matching headstamps from the loaded rounds.


I've a Lee auto-index turret I use for low volume calibers -- extra tool heads make changing calibers about the time than it takes to fill a primer tube. I do about 150 rounds/hr on this which is fine for the odd calibers. I've another newer Hornady Projector I got at a garage sale setup for 9mm my second greatest volume caliber. The press I'm looking to replace is the Pro-7, which is their the oldest progressive model, I think I had the names confused in the OP.

--wally.

 

[bgoble]

I have both. Both turn out very high quality ammo. I have loaded over 10,000 rounds of 45ACP on a SDB with very few problems. These presses get a lot of bad press and I can't figure out why. No you can't load rifle carts. The dies are carbide and work great. It only takes 15 minutes to change calibers, less than 30 if your changind primer sixes also. Unless your loading 2 or 3 K per month the SDB will work well. Keep an eye on the classifieds.

 

[cheygriz]

XL 650. Next question?

 

[Chris Rhines]

XXX rounds per hour is a nice ad copy but, but reality is different. For 20+ years I've had no trouble loading 250 rounds/hour -- time measurement includes everything -- filling powder measure, loading primer tubes, opening bullet boxes and dumping cleaned brass from storage containers into working storage bin, and placing loaded rounds into storage boxes.

Just as a point of comparison, I have a Dillon XL650 with the case feeder. About two hours ago I timed myself loading some 9mm Para match ammo. Times are approximate by my watch.

Loading four primer tubes, dumping clean brass from "clean 9mm brass bin" into the hopper, checking powder charge weight and COAL - 11 minutes.
Loading the first 100 rounds, including topping off the powder, reloading the primer tube, spot-checking COAL, and dumping the finished rounds into the tumbler - 10 minutes (had 3 upside-down cases, which take about twenty seconds to clear.)
Loading the second 100 rounds, ditto all - 8 minutes
Loading the third 100 rounds, ditto all - 7 minutes
Loading the fourth 100 rounds, same - 7 minutes
Cleanup, sifting and bagging loaded rounds - 5 minutes

Add 4 minutes or so for whatever, and that's 50 minutes to load 400 rounds. I didn't include tumbling the brass, as I do that seperately while watching the tube or surfing teh intarwebs. That comes out to an all-inclusive average 12.5 minutes per 100 rounds. So the XL650 with the casefeeder probably will increase your reloading speed.

- Chris

 

[MarshallDodge]

I own two 550's and had a SDB for a short time. Go with the 650.

 

[Idano]

Chris,

I agree with you 100% your times are very realistic. Most people just quote the time it takes them to load 100 rounds and then calculate the theoretical rounds per hour if it was nonstop. One thing I noticed that you didn't list or didn't do was routinely check your powder dispense. If you did check it ignore this but if you didn't I highly recommend doing it some fixed interval. I once found a piece of plastic in my powder measure that came from the 8 lbs powder keg. Being black I hadn't noticed it when I poured in the powder and it ended up getting lodged in the powder measure so that it displaced the powder being dispensed by about 2 grains. I have always checked my dispenses about every 25th for flake and every 50th for ball so I only had to pull 50 bullets. Usually I get about 400 an hour if everything goes well and I don't spill my primers or forget to push for the prime and skip a primer except for .223. I use stripper clips for AR so usually I can only get about 300 rounds loaded in an hour.

 

[wally]

Thanks Chris, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for! How bad does things mess up if say a 9x18 or .380 case finds its way in with the 9mm empties or you get an empty with a warped rim?

How easy is to see the cases as they enter the shell holder and remove them if something is wrong? Things like a .45GAP mixed in or a .40 case that slipped thru my sorting or a 9mm inside a .45 case, or a warped rim. When manually inserting cases into the Hornady I always find a few of these every couple of thousand cleaned cases.

I've pretty much decided to order the XL650 on Monday, but now I'm debating as to getting the automatic case feeder and be done with it, or add it later once I'm familiar with the system. Spreading out some of the cost a bit wouldn't hurt!

--wally.

 

[xring44]

I have two XL650s, one set up for small primers, one for large, one electric case feed that I switch between the machines, arthritis in my neck, back, shoulders, hands made switching calibers with large/small primers a real pain for me. Love my dillons.

 

[Chris Rhines]

How bad does things mess up if say a 9x18 or .380 case finds its way in with the 9mm empties or you get an empty with a warped rim?

I'm pretty careful about sorting my brass, so this rarely happens, but every once in a while the casefeeder tries to feed a case upside-down. To clear those type of malfunctions, you just have to reach into the casefeeder slide, remove the offending case, and toss it back in the hopper (or into the trash.)

It's a little more annoying if a .40 case gets mixed into the 9mm brass - this prevents brass from feeding. You have to remove the casefeeder tube to clear it, but even this takes no more than a minute or so.

- Chris

 

[wally]

OK thanks a lot guys, I've ordered the XL650 and automatic case feeder and four extra primer tubes along with the instruction DVD.

thanks!
--wally.