Direct challenge to the NFA

[N555]

Now we're in activism. The more this moves around the better I say.
At the time of moving the pole is 31 to 0, so people who are at least interested in learning about the NFA don't seem to be huge fans of it.

 

[Scout21]

I'd vote in the poll, but it was phrased in a very suggestive way. If you wanted the answers that truly reflect people's beliefs I would reword it in a less inflammatory way.

But, yes, all gun laws are an infringement.

 

[gotboostvr]

What makes you think "economy of scale" isn't occurring right now?
It's not like Silencerco is two guys in a garage churning out a dozen cans a day.

It is, to some effect.

But if you think they're doing nearly as much business as they would be if suppressors were sold the same as any other accessory like a red dot or flashlight, you're very mistaken.

 

[dogtown tom]

It is, to some effect.

It is to great effect, not some effect.

But if you think they're doing nearly as much business as they would be if suppressors were sold the same as any other accessory like a red dot or flashlight, you're very mistaken.

Something I didn't imply or state or even allude to.
Your post DID imply, that silencers would be cheaper if "economy of scale kicks in and the nicer ones will be cheaper".....which is solely related to the costs of manufacturing. The difference between making 10 a week vs 100 a week doesn't likely impact production costs as much as 1000 a week (where the big boys are already at).

Sales could double, triple or quadruple for Silencerco and not affect their cost of production one dollar.

 

[dogtown tom]

Now we're in activism. The more this moves around the better I say.
At the time of moving the pole is 31 to 0, so people who are at least interested in learning about the NFA don't seem to be huge fans of it.

Again, learn the rudimentary elements of asking unbiased questions.
You've rewritten a useless poll into a nonsensical one and don't even understand what your results mean.
Waste.Of.Time.

 

[rust collector]

Humans often don't act in rational ways. A previous administration determined to curtail semi-automatic rifles resembling military arms instead achieved the result of unprecedented demand and sales. To a degree, the value of and demand for muzzle mufflers is likely enhanced by the process one must go through to obtain them. Look at the value of full auto arms in the US for proof of this phenomenon.

I believe there will be opportunities to reformulate the NFA of 1934, but both sided must be prepared to give and take, hopefully in a rational manner. I don't see that in today's political climate, where anything the opponents (enemies of freedom) want is to be avoided at all costs.

 

[dogtown tom]

Humans often don't act in rational ways. A previous administration determined to curtail semi-automatic rifles resembling military arms instead achieved the result of unprecedented demand and sales. To a degree, the value of and demand for muzzle mufflers is likely enhanced by the process one must go through to obtain them. Look at the value of full auto arms in the US for proof of this phenomenon.

I wholeheartedly disagree.
The "value" of full auto firearms is entirely the result of the Hughes Amendment which closed the NFA Registry of new machine guns. A linited number of fully transferrables and an increasing population creates a demand on those machine guns.
vs
The rising poularity of silencers due to changes in state laws. Texas for example, silencer sales exploded when they were legalized for hunting.

I believe there will be opportunities to reformulate the NFA of 1934, but both sided must be prepared to give and take, hopefully in a rational manner. I don't see that in today's political climate, where anything the opponents (enemies of freedom) want is to be avoided at all costs.

Not for one minute do I believe there will be a legislative solution to the NFA. Politicians are absolutely terrified of anything to do with machine guns, assassins' silencers, sawed off shotguns and rifles made more concealable. Any changes will be through the judiciary.

 

[rust collector]

My point exactly. By limiting numbers, interest, demand and value skyrocket.

If you had a few transferable full autos in your collection, would you be in favor of eliminating the Hughes amendment?

 

[usaral63]

Well I do and YES I favor getting rid of that illicit abortation!!!

 

[tark]

but both sided must be prepared to give and take,

The problem is that one side takes the old Soviet Union's stance on negotiations: "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."

 

[N555]

Again, learn the rudimentary elements of asking unbiased questions.
You've rewritten a useless poll into a nonsensical one and don't even understand what your results mean.
Waste.Of.Time.

It's turning out my way better than I could have hoped. Totally worth it.

 

[dogtown tom]

It's turning out my way better than I could have hoped. Totally worth it.

Seriously?
On a gun forum you had expectations that forum members would want the NFA? Would enjoy paying a $200 tax? Would enjoy waiting for ATF approval?


.45 vs 9mm is an edgier question than what you come up with.

 

[N555]

My point exactly. By limiting numbers, interest, demand and value skyrocket.

If you had a few transferable full autos in your collection, would you be in favor of eliminating the Hughes amendment?

Yes.
Over night everything else becomes a machine gun when the Hughes ammendment goes away, assuming the nfa still exists, still have to pay $200, ect, I'll be registering pieces of exhaust pipe, solid chunks of aluminum, sheets of 1/16 steel, I'll go to the scrap yard and buy whatever looks like it could be turned into something cause it might turn into a "freedom week" situation.
Anyone that has a hundred thousand dollars or a few hundred thousand tied up in machine guns right now, might want to think about selling a few.
Certain things will hold collector value, things of historical value, M60s, AC556, the handful of M249s out there cause I doubt FN is going to sell those to the general public and stuff you just can't get anymore and hope that someone doesn't offer cheap reproductions of what you have.
Ones that will be worthless:
M16, pre86 sten guns, anything pre86 made from a flat like an uzi, mac, AK.
Things that will explode in value:
Probably parts kits that are easy to full auto, but really difficult to semiauto such as:
PPS, PPSH type parts kits, sten gun parts kits, belt fed MG parts kits. Barrels for any of those.
Any kind of uncommmon stamped, but not just simply bent with a break blank receiver that could be made into a MG such as G3, or G3 like gun that fires 5.56 but are currently made into a semiautos. Idk a G3 full auto seems like it would be uncontrollable.

At least until the market catches up.

 

[N555]

Seriously?
On a gun forum you had expectations that forum members would want the NFA? Would enjoy paying a $200 tax? Would enjoy waiting for ATF approval?


.45 vs 9mm is an edgier question than what you come up with.

Yeah so what's your point?

 

[AlexanderA]

Not for one minute do I believe there will be a legislative solution to the NFA. Politicians are absolutely terrified of anything to do with machine guns, assassins' silencers, sawed off shotguns and rifles made more concealable.

The problem is that any reform (easing) of the NFA is being posed as deregulation. If the issue was reformulated so that it appears to be a tightening of restrictions (for example by "registering currently unregistered machine guns"), then it might make progress. Remember that the NFA is already a pretty strict regulatory regime. What antigunner could object to more guns being registered?

Another popular buzzword is governmental simplification. Simplify the NFA by dropping useless provisions pertaining to silencers, SBR's, and Any Other Weapons. Heck, hardly anybody even knows what AOW's are.

All bets would be off if Sen. Feinstein's pet idea of bringing "assault weapons" under the NFA makes serious progress. That would entail a complete rewriting of the Act, and who knows what would come out at the other end of the sausage-making process.

It all depends on how this thing is framed.

 

[old lady new shooter]

We can also chip away at the NFA by deleting silencers and SBR's.

^^^ This.

"Silencers" do not silence guns, they just reduce the decibel level to protect people's hearing. And I see no logic to banning SBR's either, not everybody is 6' tall, law-abiding adults should be able to own firearms appropriate to their individual physique.

 

[WestKentucky]

Do we really want anybody to be able to walk into the hardware store and walk away with any of the fully auto weapons available? I am for dropping SBR, SBS, and suppressors. They don’t really add to the effect that the gun has, they just get more portable but since we have pocket nines aplenty the point on portability is moot. I would argue against the arbitrary .50 inches in bore size as well for rifles. Kinda silly.

 

[N555]

Do we really want anybody to be able to walk into the hardware store and walk away with any of the fully auto weapons available? I am for dropping SBR, SBS, and suppressors. They don’t really add to the effect that the gun has, they just get more portable but since we have pocket nines aplenty the point on portability is moot. I would argue against the arbitrary .50 inches in bore size as well for rifles. Kinda silly.

Yes because anyone could mail order a machine gun in 1933.
People would at least have to do a 4473 without the nfa. Or strike down Hughes and have to be nfa'ed.
Plus any criminal thats wants an MG gets them.

 

[WestKentucky]

Yes because anyone could mail order a machine gun in 1933.
People would at least have to do a 4473 without the nfa. Or strike down Hughes and have to be nfa'ed.
Plus any criminal thats wants an MG gets them.

Your scratching on the right post now. Knock Hughes down and open the registry. Keep select bits and pieces as NFA or restricted or whatever you choose to call it. Streamline the approval process. I wouldn’t even balk at a cooldown period provided it was reasonable… as in 7 days for federal authorities to do a bit more of a dive than a NICS does to see if you have any signs of going on some sort of rampage…and then the feds would HAVE TO DO IT. Anyways…

 

[Mike OTDP]

The problem is that any reform (easing) of the NFA is being posed as deregulation. If the issue was reformulated so that it appears to be a tightening of restrictions (for example by "registering currently unregistered machine guns"), then it might make progress. Remember that the NFA is already a pretty strict regulatory regime. What antigunner could object to more guns being registered?

I like the way you think. Repeal of 922(o) is the "Machine Gun Market Destruction Act." We're going to torpedo the investment value of those Uzis and Mac-11s. Maybe with a side-helping of a re-registration period for machine guns, to get all the C&R guns that were brought back from the World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam properly papered.

 

[dogtown tom]

The problem is that any reform (easing) of the NFA is being posed as deregulation. If the issue was reformulated so that it appears to be a tightening of restrictions (for example by "registering currently unregistered machine guns"), then it might make progress. Remember that the NFA is already a pretty strict regulatory regime. What antigunner could object to more guns being registered?

Right now no one in Congress is proposing ANYTHING about the NFA.
Your plan to have the NFA tightened by "registering currently unregistered machine guns"......is baffling.

Another popular buzzword is governmental simplification. Simplify the NFA by dropping useless provisions pertaining to silencers, SBR's, and Any Other Weapons. Heck, hardly anybody even knows what AOW's are.

While a great idea and eb\ven endorsed by an ATF white paper a few years ago.......it will happen about the same time as the Hearing Protection Act passes.

It all depends on how this thing is framed.

You can frame it anyway you want but legislatively it aint gonna happen.

 

[dogtown tom]

Do we really want anybody to be able to walk into the hardware store and walk away with any of the fully auto weapons available?

I do.
It shouldn't be any more difficult than buying a Title I firearm.

 

[N555]

I think the nfa would do good to have a habitual buyer list. Some one bought more than 2 tax stamps more than 2 years ago probably should get fast tracked rubber stamps. Those aren't the people doing gun crimes.

Remember the government caused all the events that lead to the creation of the nfa.

 

[General Geoff]

Do we really want anybody to be able to walk into the hardware store and walk away with any of the fully auto weapons available?

Yes.

They should be in a display next to the other high dollar power tools. Maybe between those and the riding mower section.

 

[AlexanderA]

Your plan to have the NFA tightened by "registering currently unregistered machine guns"......is baffling.

What I am suggesting is a new amnesty and repeal of Hughes, cloaked as an expansion of the NFA. Maybe someone will be naive enough to buy it. Stranger things have happened. (Note: the antigunners are nothing if not naive. It's their central characteristic.)