Disagreement with Hornady Die setup, 30-06

[243winxb]

fguffey, do you see the light?

Can't close bolt on rifle
Posted by on 20 October 2011 07:57 AM
First make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case. This ensures that the sizing die is bumping the shoulder back as well as reducing the diameter of the case. If the shell holder does not contact the base of the die, the diameter of the case is squeezed down, making the case (and distance to the shoulder) longer.

If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit.

Our address is:

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U
Hartford, WI 53027.

RAT807 Floor or Deck height on shell holders. Some have been measured at .132" but not by me. Easy to check. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=598312

 

[RAT807]

I think some of you all have missed the main point of my post. Perhaps, I was not very clear... The Redding shell holder will allow for more of the case to be sized than the Hornady shell holder will. Measuring from the floor of the shell holder to the top of the shell holder, the Redding is not as high as the Hornady.

Some have cut their shell holders down. I don't have equipment or access to do this but I can buy another shell holder and break out the digital caliper and measure to find another option. I use the Redding shell holder.

I can even measure the height for both shell holders and post here later today. If others could do this, we may help someone figure out which shell holder to get.

Oh Thanks 243winxb! A picture is worth a thousand words

 

[anothernewb]

I think some of you all have missed the main point of my post. Perhaps, I was not very clear... The Redding shell holder will allow for more of the case to be sized than the Hornady shell holder will. Measuring from the floor of the shell holder to the top of the shell holder, the Redding is not as high as the Hornady.

Some have cut their shell holders down. I don't have equipment or access to do this but I can buy another shell holder and break out the digital caliper and measure to find another option. I use the Redding shell holder.

I can even measure the height for both shell holders and post here later today. If others could do this, we may help someone figure out which shell holder to get.

that's an interesting thing. I for one would like to see the differences. I know there's varying levels of "play" in the .45acp shell holder between my RCBS and my Lee and my dillon ones for the SDB

 

[RAT807]

243winxp posted this link
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=598312

After looking through this post, it looks like it's probably an out of spec shell holders, IF they all should have a deck height of .125 as stated in the post. My Hornady shell holder does have a lot of slop in it compared to the Redding.

 

[fguffey]

The deck height of the shell holder should be .125". I have one set that has a deck height of .135" another with a deck height of .133" etc.

I purchased a set of Redding Competition shell holders at a gun show for $5.00 as opposed to $40.00. I have not used them but JIC, I adjust the die off the shell holder with a feeler gage. One feeler gage fits all.

No ideal what slop is, the shell holder that does not fit the case head tightly is my favorite shell holder, there is another use for shell holders that fit snug.

F. Guffey

 

[cfullgraf]

Daylight? I can not measure daylight so I guess you have outdone me. I measure the gap with a feeler gage, I do not insist on eliminating the gap

Advance courses required for earning a PhD in Engineering cover such abstract measurements as "daylight", "smidge", "skosh", and a couple other named measurements not suitable for printing in the family oriented THR.

Of course, you know what they say about PhD's (piled high and deep).

I do not make any attempts to measure the daylight. I observe the daylight between the die and the shell holder.

The daylight is an indicator to me that under load the case is not fully inserted in the resizing die.

I wish to reisze to the maximum depth available in the die therefore when resizing a case, the die must touch the shell holder at top dead center. When this is the case, I know all of the looseness in the press and flex in the press have been taken up.

In most cartridges, I have multiple firearms and I do not wish to segregate cases by rifle. Therefore, all of the cases must fit all the rifles.

If I ever go back to competition (doubtful) or long range precision shooting (no availability of a long range shooting arena) I will probably separate cases for just that firearm and make the effort to reload the best ammunition that I can.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The problem with using a feeler gauge and a standing gap betwixt the shellholder and die is that you still have the variable of frame flex in play which can be quite a bit on even "strong" presses.

This will of course vary slightly due to differences in sizing effort from case to case.

Competition shellholders allow you to make slight adjustments AND zero out all the "play" in the system against the bottom of the sizing die

 

[fguffey]

Competition shellholders allow you to make slight adjustments AND zero out all the "play" in the system against the bottom of the sizing die

The difference in deck height between a standard shell holder and the maximum deck height offered by Redding is .010". When I size a R-P 30/06 case I have I have .135" case head protruding from the shell holder. If the case head does not align the case in the die and the case head centers in the shell holder by floating because for the most part the shell holder is a sloppy fit the additional .010" deck height of the Redding Competition shell holder is not going to save the day.

AND zero out all the "play" in the system against the bottom of the sizing die

I do not assume the die makes it to the shell holder. I have found .017" gaps between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder. I have cases I size with a .014" gap when sizing cases for a chamber that is .002" longer than a field reject chamber, that is .016" longer than a minimum length case from the shoulder to the case to the case head.

Then there are shell holders that are not loose and do not allow case head movement for alignment, shell holders that fit are not my first choice, they have a purpose, one of the purposes is not case forming.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I do not make any attempts to measure the daylight. I observe the daylight between the die and the shell holder.

I turned down an offer to purchase a light measurement gage. Instead I purchased a Pratt and Whitney electronic gage. I removed the electronic part of the gage from the stylist and installed a dial indicator. .000005 with a range of .000010" +/- was useless. The rest of the gage runs like a fine watch.

F. Guffey

 

[rskent]

Fguffy – You need to get a smidgin gauge. I don't see how you can possible reload without one.
As far as the shell holders, Redding competition set. Cheep and easy. I think I got them at Midway.

 

[W.E.G.]

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

You MUST measure your resized bottleneck brass with a case gage.
If you don't use a case gage, I promise you are doing it wrong.

If you need to get a different shellholder, or modify an existing shellholder, to allow you to push the shoulder to the correct dimension, then get with it.

You need to be measuring your resized brass first-and-foremost. This business of "adjust until it touches the shellholder..." or such is just a guideline, and is not gospel. If you aren't measuring your shoulder dimension with a proper gage, you are doing it wrong.

 

[fguffey]

Daylight? I can not measure daylight so I guess you have outdone me. I measure the gap with a feeler gage, I do not insist on eliminating the gap I am the one that put the gap there to begin with. I know the length of the chamber, I know the deck height of the shell holder, I know the distance from the deck of the shell holder to the shoulder of the die. When compared to case length from the shoulder to the case head the distance from the deck of the shell holder to the shoulder of the die for the 30/06 is .005" shorter than a go-gage length chamber.

Back to the gap of day light, when sizing a case for one of my chambers a gap of .003" can be perfect for a fit, I can not measure day light, I can measure a gap without crawling under the

W.E.G. I make chamber gages, I have Wilson case gages, there are other ways to measure the length of a fired case from the datum/shoulder to the case head than a case gage. There are ways to measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face without firing a case.

I acquired 14 barrels last week for the sole purpose of making chamber gages, for the most part the barrels never had a round fired through them, but returning the barrels to something useful is labor intensive.

F. Guffey