Disarmed Victims - The Cougar Attack in California

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Desertdog

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A number of years ago they outlawed the hunting of mountain lions in PRK, and I believe this is the results of that law, because without them being hunted, the mountain lion probably lost the fear of man.:fire:

Disarmed Victims - The Cougar Attack in California

Posted 1/11/2004 from TVC printer friendly version

"RE: Your show tonight 'The Big Story w/Rita Cosby,' is talking with the people that dragged that poor defenseless woman away from the attacking cougar... throwing rocks and bicycles at the big cat.

Dear Ms Cosby,

Please note that there are just over five million law abiding citizens across U.S.A. that are allowed to carry a concealed weapon with them while traveling around in public. I know of several avid bicycle enthusiasts that normally are armed with a concealed firearm while riding their bikes, as South Carolina is one of the 38 states that is allowed to issue their law abiding citizens a concealed weapon permit.

The problem is that this attack occurred in a state that did not allow any of these victims of that cougar attack... or their rescuers... to legally carry a firearm. As a result, as one man on your show said he resorted to throwing rocks.
California is one of less than ten states that have relegated their citizens to that of 'victim' status while those of us in the remaining states (that uphold our Constitutional right to self-defense) are allowed to defend ourselves from marauding dogs, attacking bears, the occasional rapist or mugger, or in this case, an attacking mountain lion. Please note that MOST places in the U.S. allow people to defend themselves from such incidents... that's why you rarely hear of the bear or wolf or mountain lion attack in Montana or Alaska or in any of the states that uphold the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

In the same way that the law required Barbara Olson to leave her Glock at home next to her Virginia Concealed Weapon Permit on the morning of September 11th, 2001, these bicyclists in California were also prohibited, by law, from having the ability to defend themselves."

You can read the complete story at:
http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?ColId=1233&poll=up
 
Yes, indeed the ban on Mountain Lion hunting has made it less safe in CA. I believe it is more because the population is not being properly controlled, thereby increasing the number of cats that will go looking for meals closer and closer to places where people frequent.

As a current subject of the PRK, I am appalled by many of our restrictive gun laws. However, California is one of the states that issue CCW permits. There are some counties where it is impossible, but in some counties it is not so difficult. (It will depend on the politics of your local sheriff) IIRC, Orange County sheriff Mike Carona has a good record on issuing CCW permits. Of course, OC is one of the most conservative counties in the state.

If Californians want to get their CCW, they need to make an issue of it during the election season. Make the Sheriff candidates take a stand on the issue, and let them know that CCW is important to you.
 
throwing rocks and bicycles at the big cat.

Just as a technicality the cougar/puma/mountain lion is regarded as the largest of the small cats, a distinction made on size to an extent but also behaviourial traits - it eats, sits and shares the inability to roar like a domestic cat or lynx.

Try telling that to this poor woman though.

I think I am right in saying that they attack from behind with a neck/head bite, if it is going to attack then you are unlikely to know it is there until the fateful moment. That said, a healthy bit of fear of man in the little-big moggies would help stop this happening.

How common are attacks?
 
hardening of the hyroid bone I believe prevents an african lion type roar - could be totally wrong. May not be a big cat but I wouldn't want to tangle with one intent on making me a meal.
 
lion1editcrop.jpg

Lion Sitting

tara-sitting.jpg

Tiger Sitting

cheeta07_sm.jpg

Cheeta Sitting

1sitting_leopard.jpg

Leopard Sitting

Oh, and they all eat too. ;)
 
Yeah yeah dischord very funny, just because I am having a geeky day and felt like throwing useless information around.
 
How common are attacks?
From what I've read, 13 fatal attacks in a century or so. BUT... some of them HAVE BEEN CHILDREN!
Probably the kids fault, running around in the outdoors, all squealy and everything, diddybopping... looking like prey.
Still and all, should you get a chance to (ahem) defend yourself successfully against said Felis ConColor, you can say you "did it for the children".

And the mountainbike thing; playing "catch me if ya can" with a cougar, only you don't know you're playing? HA!

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU? DON'T FEED THE MOUNTAIN LIONS! They lose their natural fear of man. :rolleyes:

Non-Fatal attacks? Did a yahoo search on "Mountain lion attacks"... interesting reading.
 
Recreational hysteria, or just demagoguery?

First the weasel words: I have not paid any more attention to the lion attack story than to barely notice the thread titles, headlines, etc. so this is a genuine question, not just rhetorical. Is there anything to suggest that these people would have carried appropriate weapons even if the law required them to? My own take on Southern Californians, from having lived half my adult life there and frequent visits since taking refuge elsewhere, is that the odds are that they were ill equipped to handle a lion attack by choice. Concealed or open carry never occurred to them and they were and are blissfully unaware of the laws that enable open carry or restrict concealed carry, just as they were unaware of the threat.

Is there any indication that they can truthfully be labeled "disarmed?"
 
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Female victim is a Marine!

She should know how to use a gun to defend her life.

The only problem is that Whiting Wilderness Park forbids ALL FIREARMS AND WEAPONS! according to their website,I called to check about at least packing a knife but they were not answering the phone,I left a message telling them "I bet the mountain lions LOVE the "no gun policy"

afaik Female victim had no CCW
 
Bullhockey...

From what I've read, 13 fatal attacks in a century or so.

The proper question is: "How many in the last 25 years?"
& "Are they becoming more frequent?"

We need a mountain lion season, to remind them who is who in the food chain, to protect the cats, before some leftist applies the old"you don't behave how we want so we will exterminate you"solution...:rolleyes:

Tom
 
As near as I can tell, it seems like a majority of all people who wander around in parkland area never think about any hazard of any sort: Bad Guys, weather, cougars or bears.

Hey, when you're raised to believe Salter's "Bambi" is a documentary...

Art
 
From what I've read, 13 fatal attacks in a century or so.

The proper question is: "How many in the last 25 years?" & "Are they becoming more frequent?"

We need a mountain lion season, to remind them who is who in the food chain, to protect the cats, before some leftist applies the old"you don't behave how we want so we will exterminate you"solution...

---------

I would go further. How many attacks, doesn't have to be fatal attacks within the passage of the mountain lion hunting ban. I bet that its in the 30s, maybe more.

This statistic about fatal attacks is a strawman. Its the same as the statistic being kept by the federal goverment about the wolf reintroduction in certain states. They only classify wolf attacks as attacks that cause a fatality. Read this

Dr. David Mech, USFWS wolf biologist, states there are no "documented" cases of rabid wolves below the fifty seventh latitude north (near Whitehorse, Yukon Territory)._ When asked what "documented" meant, he stated, "The head of the wolf must be removed, sent to a lab for testing, and found to be rabid."

Those requirements for "documentation" negate all historical records!

As with rabid wolves, the biologist can say, "There are no "documented" cases of wild healthy wolves attacking humans."_ In order to be "documented" these unreasonable criteria must be met"

-The wolf has to be killed, examined and found to be healthy.
-It must be proven that the wolf was never kept in captivity in its entire life.
-There must be eyewitnesses to the attack.
-The person must die from their wounds (bites are generally not attacks according to the biologists)

That is a "documented" attack.

Seems that Dr. L. David Mech (pronounced Meech) has watched too many Disney animal movies. Here is another publication detailing an encounter with Dr. L. David Mech.

Sounds like the biologists have a Michael Besillies-type person in their midst. I bet if those acid-blood space Aliens are found on earth, this guy would be first in line to call them an endangered species. :cuss:
 
I was channel surfing last week and caught a glimpse at those charged with dispatching the mountain lion. Aerial footage showed one of the guys (CHP?) running across a road with an AR. I thought that was odd, since we all know how unsuitable a California-defined "assault weapon" is for anyting except spray-firing from the hip to kill scads of people... :rolleyes:
 
PrudentGT,you know? you're right!

I was channel surfing last week and caught a glimpse at those charged with dispatching the mountain lion. Aerial footage showed one of the guys (CHP?) running across a road with an AR. I thought that was odd, since we all know how unsuitable a California-defined "assault weapon" is for anyting except spray-firing from the hip to kill scads of people...
The female victim a Marine would have to know how to use an M16,yet she was denied her rights by Whiting Wilderness Park
 
Yeah your letter doesn't really make much sense when you claim the State of California doesn't allow concealed carry and it actually does. It helps to know what you are talking about before you write letters like that. Most people hear all of the PRK horror stories, but I think most of them don't really know what happens around here and they just like to spread it around because they are good scary stories. True those people probably didn't have a license, but the question is, did they want one? You can't really claim that a gun would have saved someone from the mountain lion if no one wanted a gun. That is why California's politics suck, a lot of the people are stupid.

I just searched through the Penal Code and couldn't find anything that would prohibit at CCW holder from carrying in a wilderness like that. My rule of thumb is I carry anywhere in the state that doesn't have a metal detector. If I get busted in a park for carrying with my lawful permit, so be it.

I also e-mailed that particular wilderness and asked them if their firearm policy applied to lawful CCW holders. We will find out what they say about it.
 
There's a lot of cheatas in California. Too many actually get elected to high office.

:)

(Hey, that's not as bad as the lady donkey sale rep who sued for sexual harassment because people kept touching her a...ahhh, never mind :neener:.)
 
park rules say no firearms or weapons

imagebar_wilderness.jpg

http://www.ocparks.com/whitingranch/default.asp?Show=parkrules
Park Rules:

Consumption of intoxicants prohibited.
Park only in designated areas.
All fires are prohibited. Fire prevention must be the first concern of every visitor.
Use of motorized vehicles and equipment is prohibited.
Possession or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited.
No pets. (horses exempt)
Swimming or wading in creek or lake is prohibited.
The park depends on visitors to protect all wildlife, vegetation, features, and improvements.
This wilderness area is characterized by certain inherent dangers. These dangers include mountain lions, rattlesnakes, poison oak, and rugged terrain.
Smoking in designated areas only.
MINORS SHOULD BE UNDER DIRECT ADULT SUPERVISION AT ALL TIMES.
Still who knows yet whether the female victim ever applied for a ccw,or whether they would honor it. I personally doubt that any State Park in CA would honor a ccw.Off duty cops would have no problem I am sure.
 
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