Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Search the TFL archives and you'll find the Dallas 911 system once received a report of an impending murder 30 minutes prior to the crime and they still got there 15 minutes too late.
Disbelieving 911 operator ignored home invasion call
- Thread starter Sylvilagus Aquaticus
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Dial 911 and DIE
Not a self defense related call, but it is an apt demonstration or response and quality of service you can get with 911. As the JPFO says, Dial 911 and Die.
From a recently released transcript of July 9 emergency-response calls regarding the collapse of Memphis-area resident Jim Wagner.
MEMPHIS FIRE DEPARTMENT: What is the address of your emergency?
CALLER: 2686 Kirby-Whitten Road just south of Summer Avenue at The Billiard Club.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. What's the problem there, sir?
CALLER: I've got a person that's had a seizure or a heart attack, passed out totally, having convulsions.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Male or female?
CALLER: Male, approximately sixty years old.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. Is he breathing?
CALLER: Ah, ma'am, I don't know. I'm across the building from him.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. All right. We're on the way.
BARTLETT POLICE DEPARTMENT: Bartlett Police.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Yes, ma'am, we're needing you all on an emergency call at The Billiard Club.
BARTLETT POLICE: Where are you?
MEMPHIS FIRE: Hold on ... 2686 Kirby-Whitten.
BARTLETT POLICE: Where is that? I mean, is it a business?
MEMPHIS FIRE: It's a business. It's a billiards club. And there's a party there in cardiac arrest.
BARTLETT POLICE: Now what's the name of this place?
MEMPHIS FIRE: I don't know the exact name of it, but it's a billiards club.
BARTLETT POLICE: A billiards club?
MEMPHIS FIRE: Yeah. 2686 Kirby-Whitten.
BARTLETT POLICE: Okay, I don't think that's ours.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Kirby-Whitten is not yours?
BARTLETT POLICE: Not below 2735, I don't think.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Oh my God. This is so ridiculous.
BARTLETT POLICE: Try the county.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. No problem.
SHEEBY COUNTY: May I help you?
MEMPHIS FIRE: We got a call at a billiards club at Whitten Road and Summer, and it didn't come up to be ours. Is that yours? Is that Bartlett?
SHELBY COUNTY: it's going to be Bartlett.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Bartlett, isn't it? All right. Let me call them.
SHELBY COUNTY: Okay.
MEMPHIS FIRE: All right. Thanks.
BARTLETT FIRE DEPARTMENT: Lt. Jones.
MEMPHIS FIRE: This is Memphis Fire. We got a call for a male who's passed out at The Billiards Club.
BARTLETT FIRE: Is that Memphis or is it county?
MEMPHIS FIRE: I don't know. I called county, they said it's yours.
BARTLETF FIRE: No. No. We stop at the road right before that. That's a Memphis call.
MEMPHIS FIRE: That's going to be city?
BARTLETT FIRE: Yeah. They got the businesses out there. Memphis got the businesses. I think county's still got the residences. But that right there is definitely not Bartlett.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay.
BARTLETT FIRE: If it's by that billiards in that shopping strip, that is going to be a Memphis call.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay.
BARTLETT FIRE: All right.
MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: 911.
MEMPHIS FIRE: This is Fire Department. We're on the line with him. He got somebody in cardiac arrest and he's giving us an address that shows to be in Bartlett.
CALLER: It don't matter whose address, somebody--
MEMPHIS FIRE: Sir, we can't send anybody outside of Memphis.
MEMPHIS POLICE: It's right on the borderline, Fire. We normally handle those.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Fire Department. What's the location of the emergency?
CALLER: I'm still over here and I ain't seen no ambulance, no nothing.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Sir, are you in the City of Memphis, or are you in Bartlett?
CALLER: I don't know. No. We're not in Bartlett. We're in City of Memphis.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Look, we're trying to get you some help, but right now I'm showing you're in Bartlett.
CALLER [shouting]: I don't care. Get an ambulance out here. This dude's fixin' to die.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Let me transfer you to Bartlett Fire.
BARTLETT FIRE: Bartlett.
CALLER: Yes. Would you please get an ambulance to The Billiards Club?
BARTLETT FIRE: it's not ours.
CALLER: Somebody get an ambulance out here. It don't matter. Send an ambulance.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Fire department. What's the address of the emergency?
CALLER [FEMALE]: We're at The Billiards Club and--
MAN [arguing with caller]: I've already been through this. It's not Memphis, it's Bartlett.
CALLER: No it's not. We're in Memphis.
MAN: Bartlett!
CALLER: We're in Memphis.
MAN: Bartlett!
CALLER: I have somebody arguing with me. But you know I don't give a ???? where we're at. I want somebody that's, we're watching--
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay, we're on the way. What are they doing at this moment?
CALLER: They are doing CPR on him, but he's probably gone.
MEMPHIS FIRE: All right. We'll be there as soon as we can. You all continue with CPR. Okay?
[An ambulance picked Wagner up thirty minutes after the first call, and he died later at the hospital.]
More information on this 911 call can be found at ABC News.
Not a self defense related call, but it is an apt demonstration or response and quality of service you can get with 911. As the JPFO says, Dial 911 and Die.
From a recently released transcript of July 9 emergency-response calls regarding the collapse of Memphis-area resident Jim Wagner.
MEMPHIS FIRE DEPARTMENT: What is the address of your emergency?
CALLER: 2686 Kirby-Whitten Road just south of Summer Avenue at The Billiard Club.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. What's the problem there, sir?
CALLER: I've got a person that's had a seizure or a heart attack, passed out totally, having convulsions.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Male or female?
CALLER: Male, approximately sixty years old.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. Is he breathing?
CALLER: Ah, ma'am, I don't know. I'm across the building from him.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. All right. We're on the way.
BARTLETT POLICE DEPARTMENT: Bartlett Police.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Yes, ma'am, we're needing you all on an emergency call at The Billiard Club.
BARTLETT POLICE: Where are you?
MEMPHIS FIRE: Hold on ... 2686 Kirby-Whitten.
BARTLETT POLICE: Where is that? I mean, is it a business?
MEMPHIS FIRE: It's a business. It's a billiards club. And there's a party there in cardiac arrest.
BARTLETT POLICE: Now what's the name of this place?
MEMPHIS FIRE: I don't know the exact name of it, but it's a billiards club.
BARTLETT POLICE: A billiards club?
MEMPHIS FIRE: Yeah. 2686 Kirby-Whitten.
BARTLETT POLICE: Okay, I don't think that's ours.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Kirby-Whitten is not yours?
BARTLETT POLICE: Not below 2735, I don't think.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Oh my God. This is so ridiculous.
BARTLETT POLICE: Try the county.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay. No problem.
SHEEBY COUNTY: May I help you?
MEMPHIS FIRE: We got a call at a billiards club at Whitten Road and Summer, and it didn't come up to be ours. Is that yours? Is that Bartlett?
SHELBY COUNTY: it's going to be Bartlett.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Bartlett, isn't it? All right. Let me call them.
SHELBY COUNTY: Okay.
MEMPHIS FIRE: All right. Thanks.
BARTLETT FIRE DEPARTMENT: Lt. Jones.
MEMPHIS FIRE: This is Memphis Fire. We got a call for a male who's passed out at The Billiards Club.
BARTLETT FIRE: Is that Memphis or is it county?
MEMPHIS FIRE: I don't know. I called county, they said it's yours.
BARTLETF FIRE: No. No. We stop at the road right before that. That's a Memphis call.
MEMPHIS FIRE: That's going to be city?
BARTLETT FIRE: Yeah. They got the businesses out there. Memphis got the businesses. I think county's still got the residences. But that right there is definitely not Bartlett.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay.
BARTLETT FIRE: If it's by that billiards in that shopping strip, that is going to be a Memphis call.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay.
BARTLETT FIRE: All right.
MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT: 911.
MEMPHIS FIRE: This is Fire Department. We're on the line with him. He got somebody in cardiac arrest and he's giving us an address that shows to be in Bartlett.
CALLER: It don't matter whose address, somebody--
MEMPHIS FIRE: Sir, we can't send anybody outside of Memphis.
MEMPHIS POLICE: It's right on the borderline, Fire. We normally handle those.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Fire Department. What's the location of the emergency?
CALLER: I'm still over here and I ain't seen no ambulance, no nothing.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Sir, are you in the City of Memphis, or are you in Bartlett?
CALLER: I don't know. No. We're not in Bartlett. We're in City of Memphis.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Look, we're trying to get you some help, but right now I'm showing you're in Bartlett.
CALLER [shouting]: I don't care. Get an ambulance out here. This dude's fixin' to die.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Let me transfer you to Bartlett Fire.
BARTLETT FIRE: Bartlett.
CALLER: Yes. Would you please get an ambulance to The Billiards Club?
BARTLETT FIRE: it's not ours.
CALLER: Somebody get an ambulance out here. It don't matter. Send an ambulance.
MEMPHIS FIRE: Fire department. What's the address of the emergency?
CALLER [FEMALE]: We're at The Billiards Club and--
MAN [arguing with caller]: I've already been through this. It's not Memphis, it's Bartlett.
CALLER: No it's not. We're in Memphis.
MAN: Bartlett!
CALLER: We're in Memphis.
MAN: Bartlett!
CALLER: I have somebody arguing with me. But you know I don't give a ???? where we're at. I want somebody that's, we're watching--
MEMPHIS FIRE: Okay, we're on the way. What are they doing at this moment?
CALLER: They are doing CPR on him, but he's probably gone.
MEMPHIS FIRE: All right. We'll be there as soon as we can. You all continue with CPR. Okay?
[An ambulance picked Wagner up thirty minutes after the first call, and he died later at the hospital.]
More information on this 911 call can be found at ABC News.
Sam Adams
Member
Buy Guns and Seeker_two
Uh, guys, I hate to break it to you, but there's no way that you can successfully sue the police (or their dispatch system). There have been innumerable cases in every single state over the years which have all concluded that the police owe NO duty to any specific citizen, unless you are in protective custody. Sue all you want, but you won't win (and good luck getting a lawyer to sue, even if you pay him up front - they don't want to appear in front of the state bar association's disciplinary committee to argue all of the good reasons why they filed a frivolous lawsuit).
I also wouldn't tell 911 that there were "shots fired" unless they absolutely HAD BEEN. That's a great way to wind up in jail yourself, especially if anyone gets hurt when the police rush several units to your location...and you are just gambling if you assume that your own shots a couple of minutes later will qualify - first, you may not actually shoot, and second, if some neighbor looks at his watch when those shots are fired and reports to the police himself, you may get into serious trouble.
Stories like this are the very best reason why JPFO's book is call "Dial 911 and Die" - because you can't trust the system, and can't even sue if it fails. If these simple facts were known, gun control would go down in flames in a heartbeat - because the antis constantly tell everyone that individuals can't be trusted with guns, but the police can be. Well, I'm sure that the police can be - but will they be there soon enough to save you? I'm also sure that every LEO on THR will tell us that at least 95% of the time when a violent crime occurs they arrive after the fact and act as uniformed fact-gatherers and note-takers (no disrespect intended).
Articles like this are the best ammunition we have against gun control (pun unintended). They reinforce my decision to act to defend myself and my family first, and only after that to call 911, should a situation similar to this occur.
Uh, guys, I hate to break it to you, but there's no way that you can successfully sue the police (or their dispatch system). There have been innumerable cases in every single state over the years which have all concluded that the police owe NO duty to any specific citizen, unless you are in protective custody. Sue all you want, but you won't win (and good luck getting a lawyer to sue, even if you pay him up front - they don't want to appear in front of the state bar association's disciplinary committee to argue all of the good reasons why they filed a frivolous lawsuit).
I also wouldn't tell 911 that there were "shots fired" unless they absolutely HAD BEEN. That's a great way to wind up in jail yourself, especially if anyone gets hurt when the police rush several units to your location...and you are just gambling if you assume that your own shots a couple of minutes later will qualify - first, you may not actually shoot, and second, if some neighbor looks at his watch when those shots are fired and reports to the police himself, you may get into serious trouble.
Stories like this are the very best reason why JPFO's book is call "Dial 911 and Die" - because you can't trust the system, and can't even sue if it fails. If these simple facts were known, gun control would go down in flames in a heartbeat - because the antis constantly tell everyone that individuals can't be trusted with guns, but the police can be. Well, I'm sure that the police can be - but will they be there soon enough to save you? I'm also sure that every LEO on THR will tell us that at least 95% of the time when a violent crime occurs they arrive after the fact and act as uniformed fact-gatherers and note-takers (no disrespect intended).
Articles like this are the best ammunition we have against gun control (pun unintended). They reinforce my decision to act to defend myself and my family first, and only after that to call 911, should a situation similar to this occur.
fix...
Good idea - a long distance linked 911... 1911.
That could handle calls from folks across country or regional area codes who know someone is in dire need.
BTW, with the Enhanced 911 service (and monthly fee) how come they need to ask for location? All that info is in the E911 database - at least here. We don't have to waste time doing situs talk.
Of course, what we here do need is more EMTs - most of ours are volunteers, and some fire types are cross-trained but are not in the necessary "certification" status to administer higher level life saving functions. They should also be a paid service, but... ($$$$$)
Anyway - why isn't there a "1911" already, I wonder?
Good idea - a long distance linked 911... 1911.
That could handle calls from folks across country or regional area codes who know someone is in dire need.
BTW, with the Enhanced 911 service (and monthly fee) how come they need to ask for location? All that info is in the E911 database - at least here. We don't have to waste time doing situs talk.
Of course, what we here do need is more EMTs - most of ours are volunteers, and some fire types are cross-trained but are not in the necessary "certification" status to administer higher level life saving functions. They should also be a paid service, but... ($$$$$)
Anyway - why isn't there a "1911" already, I wonder?
jimpeel
Member
That 911 call reminds me of a joke
This guy calls 911 and says "Two guys are trying to break into my car. Can you get some police out here?"
The 911 operator says "We are too busy to get there at this time. You will have to wait until an officer is free."
The guy hangs up but calls back.
"I just called and told you that two guys were trying to break into my car. Well, you can take your time now because I just shot them both."
Two minutes later, the first of five squad cars pull up and arrest the perpetrators. One of the cops walks up to the homeowner and says "I thought you said that you shot them both"
The guy looks at him and says "And I thought you said you were too busy to come out here."
This guy calls 911 and says "Two guys are trying to break into my car. Can you get some police out here?"
The 911 operator says "We are too busy to get there at this time. You will have to wait until an officer is free."
The guy hangs up but calls back.
"I just called and told you that two guys were trying to break into my car. Well, you can take your time now because I just shot them both."
Two minutes later, the first of five squad cars pull up and arrest the perpetrators. One of the cops walks up to the homeowner and says "I thought you said that you shot them both"
The guy looks at him and says "And I thought you said you were too busy to come out here."
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seeker_two
Member
1. I've never heard of anyone arrested for using the "shots fired" phrase to motivate the police to hurry UNLESS the entire call was a hoax from the beginning.....
2. I'll have definitive proof of "shots fired"...those two guys laying on the ground bleeding are holding my "fired shots" for me...
3. The only time I'd call it a "warning shot" is if I miss the guy I'm shooting at...
4. In my area, 911 is not referred to as the "first responders", but as "the cleanup crew"...
Ryder
Member
I was sleeping in one morning and the phone woke me up. It was 911 trying to verify a hangup. Wife said she didn't place the call and the only other person it could have been was our 5 years old. He confessed that the TV told him to dial 911 and he was just doing what they said. He got scared and hung up when they answered.
I explained it to 911 and apoligized to them for the call. They did not send anyone to verify my story.
Even routine requests for information from the police department get routed through 911 here. It is not just for emergencies. It help but dilute the usefulness of an emergency system.
I explained it to 911 and apoligized to them for the call. They did not send anyone to verify my story.
Even routine requests for information from the police department get routed through 911 here. It is not just for emergencies. It help but dilute the usefulness of an emergency system.
Oh, this is a tough choice... Which of these is the best one liner in this thread:
- fix: "All the more reason to add a 1 to 911. "
- Denny: "There's a reason why The Duke's last (and IMO best) movie was called The Shootist and not The Telephonist"
[/list=1]
Great lines, guys!
Oh, and Ironbar? I'm pretty sure that "1" in front of 911 wasn't intended to mean long distance. Think "Colt 1911"
Not available in all areas. YMMV. Not even landline location is up and running everywhere, and cellphone location (which is what E911 refers to) is even scarcer.
Having spent time working on E911 (from an engineering standpoint), I've probably talked to more 911 operators than most folks, except those of you in the LEO or EMT community. There are some really nice, sharp folks doing that job, and I'm sure it can get really ugly some times. But for the most part, IME, they just aren't top drawer. Some are dumb as rocks. (We had one in western TN who threatened to have one of my engineers arrested. <sigh> Combine a tiny mind with a teensy bit of power and it's not pretty.)
But I suspect that's the norm - the job doesn't pay well and it doesn't typically attract the best and the brightest.
answerguy
Member
My next line would have been the mom saying "It's OK girls, we have someone to listen to us as we get raped and murdered"
jimpeel
Member
There is something that I do every time I move to a new location and get new telephone service.
I wait until a late hour when 911 is likely not to be busy. I then call 911 and when they answer I state "This is not an emergency. Is the address on your screen at this time <my address, city>?"
When they answer that it is, I thank them for their time, bid them "goodnight" and hang up the phone.
Since I am paying for this service, I have a right to know that the address that they will be sending help to is not to South Main when I live on North Main, etc. I also have the right to make sure that the information they have is correct.
I started doing this after the fire department in a Colorado city sent the fire department to not only the wrong address but the wrong area of the city. People died in that fire. It took them 20 minutes to get themselve where they needed to be, but by that time it was too late.
If my wife is being attacked and the only action she is able to take is to pick up the phone, dial 911, drop the receiver, and run, I don't want here to have any doubt that emergency services are going to be sent to the wrong address.
I give this advise to people, especially women, as there may be nothing they can do but dial, throw the phone, and attempt to escape. A perpetrator will not take the time to pick up a receiver that is off the hook and replace it. Once the connection is made, it won't matter if they do.
At that point, the information is locked on the 911 screen and, if they are getting no response from the other end, they send everything -- police, paramedics, and fire department. On those calls, the police ALWAYS show up first as if there is a situation they don't want the paramedics or fire personnel walking into a mess.
How many of those who congregate here know for certain that their 911 information is accurate and complete?
I wait until a late hour when 911 is likely not to be busy. I then call 911 and when they answer I state "This is not an emergency. Is the address on your screen at this time <my address, city>?"
When they answer that it is, I thank them for their time, bid them "goodnight" and hang up the phone.
Since I am paying for this service, I have a right to know that the address that they will be sending help to is not to South Main when I live on North Main, etc. I also have the right to make sure that the information they have is correct.
I started doing this after the fire department in a Colorado city sent the fire department to not only the wrong address but the wrong area of the city. People died in that fire. It took them 20 minutes to get themselve where they needed to be, but by that time it was too late.
If my wife is being attacked and the only action she is able to take is to pick up the phone, dial 911, drop the receiver, and run, I don't want here to have any doubt that emergency services are going to be sent to the wrong address.
I give this advise to people, especially women, as there may be nothing they can do but dial, throw the phone, and attempt to escape. A perpetrator will not take the time to pick up a receiver that is off the hook and replace it. Once the connection is made, it won't matter if they do.
At that point, the information is locked on the 911 screen and, if they are getting no response from the other end, they send everything -- police, paramedics, and fire department. On those calls, the police ALWAYS show up first as if there is a situation they don't want the paramedics or fire personnel walking into a mess.
How many of those who congregate here know for certain that their 911 information is accurate and complete?
That is great advise. I have some friends that moved and had a fire in the alley, The fire depot went to the house they used to live at despite giving the 911 operate the current address on the call.
As far as cell phones go, always know your location, and if possible where the 911 call will go. Around here if you dial 911 from a cell phone, the call is most always answered at a certain city, if you are in a different town it helps to just ask to be transfered to town x policy/fire/emergancy. Or if on a highway, ask for the highway dept. I've done this on occasion, the first 911 operator simply transfered me to the 911 operator of the town I was in. Goes a little quicker. The few 911 operators I've talked to outside of a 911 call say that that helps a lot.
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